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SteveT
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PostSubject: White, Black, Brown, Yellow, and in between   Wed 21 Nov 2012, 7:09 pm

I've kinda flip-flopped on this one through the years, but I'll outline my current position first on blacks using the word n1gga:

a. It's that slave mentality. The inferiority, i.e. needing to state/prove they're equal, shows when they use this word to address one another. Aside from the sonic qualities, it really shows that brainwashing works. This word should never be used, because the white man used it to keep them down, and idiot blacks/thug white girls (lol) use it now never really caring about or understanding the history.

b. It is empowering. Taking the word back. It can't hurt black people anymore. It's their word.



Basically - it is empowering, or it continues to keep them down because they stupidly use it. I can see both sides, honestly. I know there are plenty of whites who think if they use it, anyone can. Plenty of whites still use it as a slur. Plenty of whites don't have an opinion. For blacks, plenty, and many prominent ones, refuse to use it because they view it as negative/accepting of racism/accepting of white stereotypes on balcks, while many think they took the word back.


Where do you stand? This is for everyone to weigh in on, but I have never been convinced one way or the other; convincing arguments for empowerment or stupid programming can be made. I lean towards programming because of those who use it (be honest; it's the idiots, USUALLY [not always] that most racist whites would call n1gger otherwise [note: see Louis C.K. on the word n1gger for why I don't censor it - saying the n-word puts the same thoughts in your head as n1gger]). I am most interested in what Kev & Powell have to say. I hope they take this topic seriously.
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PostSubject: Re: White, Black, Brown, Yellow, and in between   Wed 21 Nov 2012, 9:25 pm

This thread will tell you all you need to know

http://www.amazon.com/forum/hip%20hop/ref=cm_cd_tfp_ef_tft_tp?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx1PGP1ENM5L0H3&cdThread=Tx2ZT59Q2R2GYYC
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PostSubject: Re: White, Black, Brown, Yellow, and in between   Wed 21 Nov 2012, 10:20 pm

One, I'm not reading all that trash.

Two, one of the first responses was whites only want to say it to have power over black people. Stupid, and not critically thinking, and ignoring the question. Answer it or shoo.
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PostSubject: Re: White, Black, Brown, Yellow, and in between   Wed 21 Nov 2012, 10:21 pm

I guess you don't really want to know then. This issue is old and tired. People keep bringing it up, and I answered. If you even cared about the issue instead of just throwing something up here, then you can be gone with that. Be glad someone replied to it. People get tired of saying the same thing over and over.
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PostSubject: Re: White, Black, Brown, Yellow, and in between   Wed 21 Nov 2012, 10:30 pm

Nah, this thread will blow. Looks like you're scared to answer for yourself one way or the other.
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PostSubject: Re: White, Black, Brown, Yellow, and in between   Wed 21 Nov 2012, 10:30 pm

Nope,not scared. You're afraid to read.
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PostSubject: Re: White, Black, Brown, Yellow, and in between   Wed 21 Nov 2012, 10:57 pm

bunny should not be used by white people, rapper or not, female or male> period! why??>> because it is basically a urban term for the real word bunny which was used back in the day for what it was used for....... NOW GRANTED the N word has a meaning of this: Something or someone that is unable to learn,cooperate, or function correctly. but was used so pin_pointingly towards colored skin that it became regular. Anywho no straight full blooded Caucasian should be allowed to drop that word... but.... still> granted that with the given definition of the actual word I could be one also, but due to society it has been twisted by actual (DUMB WHITE UNABLE TO LEARN WHITE AMERICANs) to the point where its socialized into actual stupidity amongst all of us..... either or whites shouldn't use the word. and it cracks me up to see suburban white kids spitting it profusely over rhymes and people white or black supporting it My 2 cents in im done
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PostSubject: Re: White, Black, Brown, Yellow, and in between   Wed 21 Nov 2012, 11:03 pm

This post was not about whites using it, it was about blacks using it.
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PostSubject: Re: White, Black, Brown, Yellow, and in between   Wed 21 Nov 2012, 11:31 pm

A rough equivalent: A mentally ill person being like "what's up my retard", a gay person being like "what's up my faggot", etc.
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PostSubject: Re: White, Black, Brown, Yellow, and in between   Thu 22 Nov 2012, 1:47 am

Personally, I don't use it, nor do want people around me using it regardless of color, however, I can't tell another Black person how to speak to me. If they say it, then that's on them. Maybe they'll figure out after talking to me long enough, they will find I don't use the word, and maybe they'll follow suit. I never liked the word, however, I can see why people would say it is empowering.
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PostSubject: Re: White, Black, Brown, Yellow, and in between   Thu 22 Nov 2012, 1:50 am

SteveT wrote:
A rough equivalent: A mentally ill person being like "what's up my retard", a gay person being like "what's up my faggot", etc.

NyOil addressed this already:

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PostSubject: Re: White, Black, Brown, Yellow, and in between   Thu 22 Nov 2012, 1:24 pm

I was just listening to my Rubberroom Architechnology LP which was released in 1998 and noticed a young Vakill did a cameo. Makes sense since Rubberroom was from Chicago
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PostSubject: Re: White, Black, Brown, Yellow, and in between   Thu 22 Nov 2012, 4:46 pm

The title of this thread doesn't really match the topic. If you only care about whether or not black people say ninja, why did you include all the other colors? Anyway...

I don't think anyone using the word is putting as much thought into it as you are. They probably just grew up around other people that used it and they followed suit. Nothing to do with empowerment or brainwashing. Just habit or whatever you wanna call it. I don't see it any different than calling a friend dawg or mayne.

What is more interesting to me is how the word has become such a powerful insult in comparison to others. For example, you could say, "Hey you fat fucking faggot, suck my dick!" and it would still not cause as much of commotion as a simple "Ni99er." Or to keep it on the racial level, if someone calls me a spic, I tell them to eat a dick and keep it moving. I don't see the need to make it a big racial deal or anything. I'm not trying to be insensitive, but the whole argument I hear about the history of the word seems like a moot point. Each person makes their own decision on how to react and blaming it on history just seems stupid to me.
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PostSubject: Re: White, Black, Brown, Yellow, and in between   Thu 22 Nov 2012, 4:52 pm

My title was to get everybody's opinion.

I've just kinda gone back and forth between brainwashing and empowerment, and can see persuasive arguments made both ways. Like I said, really looking for Kev & Powell to weigh in here.

Richard Pryor has some interesting thoughts on the topic, as do others.
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PostSubject: Re: White, Black, Brown, Yellow, and in between   Fri 23 Nov 2012, 1:04 am

bunny coming from white lips is what creates a big problem mostly due to the terrible history of the word as it corresponds to American Blacks. The word does not have as much stinging power over most American blacks as it did say 40-50 yrs ago but it still can cause an reaction from most people of African heritage.

As far as Blacks using the word its a catch 22. Because on one hand it has very negative origins and keeps blacks looking at themselves as bunnies and subliminally I think it creates a self destructive mentality. Because a bunny is nothing but a physical mass and it is not of importance or worth saving. And as long as blacks see each other as bunnies or bunnies we will continue to repeat these self destructive cycles in our poorer or under educated communities.

On the other hand the argument can be made that a negative was turned into an positive because blacks took the word and made it a term of companionship and brotherhood. And now we even have influenced other races including whites to even consider themselves bunnies.

Being a black male myself who used to use the word often made a choice to stop using it because the older and more knowledgeable I got the less like a "bunny" I felt. I try not to use the word at all now. And I do not make it comfortable for my friends/family and especially folks I don't know to say the word around me. If my people could go back to calling and looking at each other as brothas and sistas, that is small solution to a bigger problem that can start some mental healing.

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PostSubject: Re: White, Black, Brown, Yellow, and in between   Fri 23 Nov 2012, 4:26 pm

Thanks for the response Kev. I agree about the brotha and sista thing too - the harmony it promotes, as well as still being aurally pleasing like bunny.

I agree 100% with everything you wrote. Do you think that thought process is becoming more common, and at a younger age with black people, or due to rap/other influences it's still really hard to shake saying bunny is "cool" ?
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PostSubject: Re: White, Black, Brown, Yellow, and in between   Fri 23 Nov 2012, 8:07 pm

Kev, when it comes to calling each other brotha/sista, would you get offended if a white dude referred to you as brotha?

I know a lot of white southerners that use brother (with "er", not "a" at the end) as a term of endearment for people of any color but I also have seen situations where a white dude will refer to a black dude as brotha as a hidden insult. I'm sure you would be able to tell the way a person meant it but do you think it would still be something you were opposed to? I just ask because there are clearly also non-blacks that use ninja in a polite way but because of the word's history, you have already said you are opposed.
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PostSubject: Re: White, Black, Brown, Yellow, and in between   Sat 24 Nov 2012, 1:49 am

Wanduras wrote:
Kev, when it comes to calling each other brotha/sista, would you get offended if a white dude referred to you as brotha?

I know a lot of white southerners that use brother (with "er", not "a" at the end) as a term of endearment for people of any color but I also have seen situations where a white dude will refer to a black dude as brotha as a hidden insult. I'm sure you would be able to tell the way a person meant it but do you think it would still be something you were opposed to? I just ask because there are clearly also non-blacks that use ninja in a polite way but because of the word's history, you have already said you are opposed.

I would not be offended if it was just during causal talk. Like you said above it depends on the situation and how it was said. I'm not out to be the word police so I would not be so serious about bro or sista from a white dude (or any other race for that matter). It just depends on how I view that person and the situation.

And as far as the word bunny being used by whites and non blacks I am not the word police on that either. I just would want someone non black and even black in some scenarios to use good judgment on who they can say that too or around and who not too just outta respect. I get some whites grew up around other blacks who allowed them to be free like that. And since rap music and the "hip" culture has reached Johnny and Suzy suburban 100% and its a good chance they have been over exposed to that word. So it is not my place to try to make an universal rule of who can say it or not. I just hope and even will demand that a white person uses good judgment and know where they are and who they around and make a good choice.




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PostSubject: Re: White, Black, Brown, Yellow, and in between   Sat 24 Nov 2012, 1:58 am

SteveT wrote:
Thanks for the response Kev. I agree about the brotha and sista thing too - the harmony it promotes, as well as still being aurally pleasing like bunny.

I agree 100% with everything you wrote. Do you think that thought process is becoming more common, and at a younger age with black people, or due to rap/other influences it's still really hard to shake saying bunny is "cool" ?

I think the word is still very well alive in the urban community because that is just what you do. Its supported so it exist. And rap music is the "cool" music of these younger generations so they hear bunny all over some of these albums and they feel its just what you say and do to be in the cool. I'm sure bro and sis terms are still alive in these areas also but not on the scale of bunny. See when we start to call each other bro and sis its adds some depth to that person and adds some importance. Being a hood brotha does not sound as simple as being a hood bunny. Going to smoke a brotha or sista is not as easy as going to smoke a bunny or this bitch. And there I feel lies the psychological effect you may have been speaking on or asking about.

And yeah bitch is the new bunny for black females. There lies one of the many problems that still exist in a good portion of my people. All of that came from slavery and was never 100% deprogrammed.

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PostSubject: Re: White, Black, Brown, Yellow, and in between   Tue 04 Dec 2012, 12:03 am

As far as the N-Word goes, when in doubt just don't. I know the word has taken on a life of its own but I don't foresee the day when it will be viewed as just another word. Once a word becomes an epithet the odds that will be extricated from that interpretation is low. It'll always be a literary dagger depending on whose wielding it.

For the most part it's had a pejorative connotation. And in my personal family it was rarely used unless it was in a negative way. Hip Hop and cinema tried to take it to the prom but for many it's still a pig in a dress.

A gun can be used for target practice but it's original purpose is to kill people. I guess that's the best way to describe how I feel about the word.

There's always this social struggle of context vs design that causes dissonance. You know it can be used in a nice way but when you see someone that reminds of the old assailant you suffer sociological PTSD and all the times you got shot or people you know that got shot floods your senses and you have this gut reaction in your scarred soul. You forgot it was a scab until somebody started picking at it intentionally or unintentionally.

We should all avoid using it like most epithets. And as unfair as it may seem especially Whites because for them context will be ignored. The word is their social kryptonite. You might have an understanding amongst your cadre of friends but it will still burn the ears of those who sit outside your circle. If you have a White friend and truly care about them you wouldn't let them say it cause all it takes is the wrong place and time for it to be problem. If you're in a situation and you're wondering if you should comment on the person saying it then you probably should. On some level it bothered you because the blade is still sharp and it stung you which was why you were wondering in the first place.

I guess the last part that bothers me about it is that some people feel that can't not say it or it's so fused in their speech it's almost an effortless utterance so they have to make a conscious effort not to say it. Is their vocabulary so limited that nothing else comes to mind? It's kind of like being around people who cuss all that time and they do it so much it's actually difficult for them not to curse.
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PostSubject: Re: White, Black, Brown, Yellow, and in between   Tue 04 Dec 2012, 12:13 am

Wanduras wrote:
Kev, when it comes to calling each other brotha/sista, would you get offended if a white dude referred to you as brotha?

I know a lot of white southerners that use brother (with "er", not "a" at the end) as a term of endearment for people of any color but I also have seen situations where a white dude will refer to a black dude as brotha as a hidden insult. I'm sure you would be able to tell the way a person meant it but do you think it would still be something you were opposed to? I just ask because there are clearly also non-blacks that use ninja in a polite way but because of the word's history, you have already said you are opposed.

As far as Whites using the word Brother it doesn't bother me unless it's done in a condescending way. As long as you say it with camaraderie I'm cool. Brother has been used as a term of endearment for a long time and believe it goes back to the institution of Church. My guess it becoming seen as a "Black" thing goes back to Black Power and Civil Rights Movement since a lot of Black churches were at the forefront of it. Brother/Sister symbolized being in the struggle together and churches were a lot more close knit back then. It went from being something you just said in Church to being a part of your everyday life. It came from the mentality of if we don't look out for each other who will? It's a universal concept which can be seen in a variety of social groups like the military and the police where that type of trust is paramount and anybody who betrays it is a pariah.
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PostSubject: Re: White, Black, Brown, Yellow, and in between   Tue 04 Dec 2012, 12:16 am

Hazardous you totally answered the question without reading what I said.
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PostSubject: Re: White, Black, Brown, Yellow, and in between   Tue 04 Dec 2012, 12:26 am

LOL!
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PostSubject: Re: White, Black, Brown, Yellow, and in between   Tue 04 Dec 2012, 12:43 am

Are you asking do I think it's A or B?

I was simply stating my feelings about the word. For you it's obviously A.

Both and neither, maybe.

Words are just words but they're also symbols and symbols have meaning. Juxtaposition is inevitable. Words have no power than what we give them.

If someone calls you a name do you:
A) Tell them not to do that hoping that they stop
B) Ignore them and not give them the satisfaction they desired

Whether you choose A or B you have no control over what someone calls you

C) Is a type of synergy of A and B, using the word so much it can't hurt you aka reclaiming it for yourself

But C just like A and B still has the same problem, you have no control over what people you. There is no Bunny-substitution in the real world like we have here.

However are people who overuse or freely use the word are they really doing C? Or has just become another part of their daily lives?
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PostSubject: Re: White, Black, Brown, Yellow, and in between   Tue 04 Dec 2012, 1:22 am

...
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PostSubject: Re: White, Black, Brown, Yellow, and in between   Thu 13 Dec 2012, 10:36 am

I thought I'd stick this here.

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PostSubject: Re: White, Black, Brown, Yellow, and in between   Thu 13 Dec 2012, 11:31 am

I saw this thread before and obviously I never answered it mainly because of the person that started this thread..I'm struggling with Stevie "I Lied about my own race" white boi trying to be serious in any discussion, I mean I can barely understand alot of his music views let alone things that he considers to be "serious" topics...plus this topic IMO is kinda old anyway....I guess I'm not really offended by anything that I don't consider hip-hop (Kreyshawn or whatever her name is and also V-Nasty) and what they say anyway...just like anything that Nicki Minaj's says or does won't offend me.....now if KRS-One or LL Cool J or Rakim, etc had some viewpoints which offended me then that would probably bother me because those are people I actually respect....

But because hip-hop has reached a bunch of places that I honestly wished it hadn't then I'm not surprised that the word n-i-g-g-a is being used by a bunch of heads that first heard Ghostface or Nas say it....they are only saying what their "favorite" music said was cool for them to say...ignorance is bliss....that's as close to "the hood" as they will ever get or care to get......in 2010 Chuck D did an interview where he discussed a few things about how hip-hop has changed so drastically and I agree with everything he's saying (the suburban influence has destroyed the culture, and also made a bunch of heads that shouldn't have fucked with the word n-i-g-g-a nor this culture in general think that it's okay that they did both...lol).....like I said earlier Ignorance is BLISS!


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PostSubject: Re: White, Black, Brown, Yellow, and in between   Thu 13 Dec 2012, 12:25 pm

D.Powell wrote:
I saw this thread before and obviously I never answered it mainly because of the person that started this thread..I'm struggling with Stevie "I Lied about my own race" white boi trying to be serious in any discussion, I mean I can barely understand alot of his music views let alone things that he considers to be "serious" topics...plus this topic IMO is kinda old anyway....I guess I'm not really offended by anything that I don't consider hip-hop (Kreyshawn or whatever her name is and also V-Nasty) and what they say anyway...just like anything that Nicki Minaj's says or does won't offend me.....now if KRS-One or LL Cool J or Rakim, etc had some viewpoints which offended me then that would probably bother me because those are people I actually respect....

But because hip-hop has reached a bunch of places that I honestly wished it hadn't then I'm not surprised that the word n-i-g-g-a is being used by a bunch of heads that first heard Ghostface or Nas say it....they are only saying what their "favorite" music said was cool for them to say...ignorance is bliss....that's as close to "the hood" as they will ever get or care to get......in 2010 Chuck D did an interview where he discussed a few things about how hip-hop has changed so drastically and I agree with everything he's saying (the suburban influence has destroyed the culture, and also made a bunch of heads that shouldn't have fucked with the word n-i-g-g-a nor this culture in general think that it's okay that they did both...lol).....like I said earlier Ignorance is BLISS!



This is what I was telling him before. This is old and tired, and people have . It's not really worth bringing up again, and is why I originally pointed to the old Amazon thread. Regarding ignorance. I agree people want to stay stupid especially when it comes to this particular subject, especially those who want to ignore what's in front of their faces.
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PostSubject: Re: White, Black, Brown, Yellow, and in between   Thu 13 Dec 2012, 12:30 pm

I Just watched the video, and Chuck D put it down regarding the whole "acceptance" thing. Of course, I'm not surprised about it. He's always on point. Thanks for the vid Powell.
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