100 Greastest Nominee Day 38

Ghostface Killah

Top 30 or so. One of my favorites.

definitely top 50 for me.

I've got Ghost in the top 100 of all-time...the collective Wu-Tang is top 50 easily

I've got two emcees in his own group ahead of him lyrically....GZA and Meth both of whom are in my top 20 emcees of all-time

Ghost has released some quality material over the course of his career but again to make the top 50 hip-hop acts of all-time with that limited amount of slots and I've two members of his group ahead of him then I see him sliding in easily to top 100 of all-time as opposed to top 50 IMO

Top 100 for me.

As much as I wanted to vote neither, I didn't.

Lord Emperor N3R0N0N wrote:

As much as I wanted to vote neither, I didn't.

You're a good man for doing as such.

Ah, thanks, most will just bitch I didn't call him the greatest of all time.

Ghost is a better lyricist than Meth in my opinion, and he sure as hell has a much better catalog, and is much better at making music. I'd say he has the most consistent solo career of any of the Wu members, and he's the only one who has outdone a (mostly) RZA produced mid-90s album later in his career.

Top 50

Jason wrote:

Ghost is a better lyricist than Meth in my opinion, and he sure as hell has a much better catalog, and is much better at making music. I'd say he has the most consistent solo career of any of the Wu members, and he's the only one who has outdone a (mostly) RZA produced mid-90s album later in his career.

Top 50

I don't think Ghost is a better lyricist, but there isn't enough of a gap to really matter one way or the other. I don't completely agree that Ghost is more consistent. Ghost has reached higher levels than Meth, but Meth has a discography full of 4 star albums and higher(except the god awful prequel album). His two albums with Redman and his other 3 solos are all solid.

...Kev can you post another nominee today? Just so I can look at a different thread? Please?

Maybe, he will nominate Method Man for you.

I don't think any of Meth's post-Tical album are 4 stars, except maybe the first album with Redman, if we count that. I think his best solo after Tical has been 4:21, but that's not a great album in my opinion, just a very good one. Tical 0 was mediocre, and Tical 2000 was pretty average.

NOT FUNNY.

Jeff, if you dislike GFK so much, why not vote "neither"?

You got me scratching my head on your voting logic sometimes...

Jason wrote:

I don't think any of Meth's post-Tical album are 4 stars, except maybe the first album with Redman, if we count that. I think his best solo after Tical has been 4:21, but that's not a great album in my opinion, just a very good one. Tical 0 was mediocre, and Tical 2000 was pretty average.

That's because you are the ultimate pessimist. LOL!

I don't think the general opinion of Method Man differs much from my view.

T. Myers wrote:

Jason wrote:

I don't think any of Meth's post-Tical album are 4 stars, except maybe the first album with Redman, if we count that. I think his best solo after Tical has been 4:21, but that's not a great album in my opinion, just a very good one. Tical 0 was mediocre, and Tical 2000 was pretty average.

That's because you are the ultimate pessimist. LOL!

I see nothing wrong about Jason's comments. Though I have not heard Tical 0, his comments are spot on IMO.

MY LOGIC is that if a person DESERVES to be in the top 50/100, that's where I'll put them and I try to leave my general bias at the door. I have voted CONSISTENTLY about who I feel are generally good picks and how much I bump them doesn't factor into the equation.

I voted top 50 due to his catalog, originality, delivery, and lyricism. I think Meth is a betta pure battle lyricists by a lot but Ghost is the betta overall lyricists because he can tell great stories and come with the real life ish. I would take Meth and Ghost in the top 50 before Gza anyday.

Tical 2000 is criminally under-rated...but this is a Ghost thread...(sic)

Minnesota Hip-Hop Fiend wrote:

T. Myers wrote:

Jason wrote:

I don't think any of Meth's post-Tical album are 4 stars, except maybe the first album with Redman, if we count that. I think his best solo after Tical has been 4:21, but that's not a great album in my opinion, just a very good one. Tical 0 was mediocre, and Tical 2000 was pretty average.

That's because you are the ultimate pessimist. LOL!

I see nothing wrong about Jason's comments. Though I have not heard Tical 0, his comments are spot on IMO.

I was joking Pounds. I know people don't like them as much as i do, and i probably overrate their music because of that. However, Jason hates almost everything. Everything is either average or mediocre. He was the ultimate pessimist before this thread. From here on out, Jason will be referred to as Simon Cowell.

Lord Emperor N3R0N0N wrote:

MY LOGIC is that if a person DESERVES to be in the top 50/100, that's where I'll put them and I try to leave my general bias at the door. I have voted CONSISTENTLY about who I feel are generally good picks and how much I bump them doesn't factor into the equation.

LOL - okay. I'm voting the opposite way because I like to keep it real. If I don't bump GFK, he ain't getting my vote. I'd look like a follower otherwise.

Soooooooo I look like a follower because I'm trying to be as unbiased as possible? It's still based on my feelings just not on my preferences. For instance, I can see why people would vote Too $hort in, but I didn't, it's just not based on how much I listen to him. If you can't seperate what you like from what you think is good...

T. Myers wrote:

Minnesota Hip-Hop Fiend wrote:

T. Myers wrote:

Jason wrote:

I don't think any of Meth's post-Tical album are 4 stars, except maybe the first album with Redman, if we count that. I think his best solo after Tical has been 4:21, but that's not a great album in my opinion, just a very good one. Tical 0 was mediocre, and Tical 2000 was pretty average.

That's because you are the ultimate pessimist. LOL!

I see nothing wrong about Jason's comments. Though I have not heard Tical 0, his comments are spot on IMO.

I was joking Pounds. I know people don't like them as much as i do, and i probably overrate their music because of that. However, Jason hates almost everything. Everything is either average or mediocre. He was the ultimate pessimist before this thread. From here on out, Jason will be referred to as Simon Cowell.

That's not true at all. But most things are average, by definition.

you are wrong jason. average is 50%. most are above or below average sucka!

So by that definition 2.5 is average, Steve

You are trying to look unbias, but who cares? I can pull up any site that talks about hip-hop and see that Common is a critically acclaimed artist that I "should" be bumping. Objectively, he should get at least top 100. But since I rarely listen to Common and don't feel his muisc THAT much, I voted "neither". My vote always reflects on my personal taste and what I truly listen to. That's what makes Kev's games interesting. Otherwise, we may as well just get some Rolling Stone/Spin type critics to "objectively" comment on classic artists...which would get mad boring IMO.

I'll say it again...IMO:

Personal listening value > Influence/Impact

I should have said most things are average or below, you know what I mean.

Really good music is more limited in quantity, recognizing that doesn't make me a pessimist. I'm perfectly willing to discuss good music, and I do, but only when it's brought up. I don't tend to make many posts bringing up the things I like, so maybe that's why it seems like I hate everything. But it seems general tastes are different than mine on Hip-Hop, and non-Hip-Hop discussion isn't really of any interest here, so it is what it is.

Jason is just a downer debbie.. negative nancy...

Nothing is good to him in hip-hop nor has it ben for the last 50 years...


As for me I consider Ghost top 50 easily...

So now I'm a follower and I care what others think because I'm taking a person's TALENT into consideration and not how much they fit into my listening tastes...hmmm...

Basically what you're saying is you can't see past your own nose...

I'm not taking "influence" into consideration really either, I'm talking about the merits of their music, and not thinking about how much I personally like it. I can look at a car that runs really well and is a model of human ingenuity, but I still might not like it because of the ugly ass spoiler on the back and those fake plastic wal mart rims. Doesn't mean I can't say that it's the greatest car of all time, I just don't like it PERSONALLY.

Lord Emperor N3R0N0N wrote:

Basically what you're saying is you can't see past your own nose...

Nah, that's not what I said at all. Read it again: "I can pull up any site that talks about hip-hop and see that Common is a critically acclaimed artist that I "should" be bumping. Objectively, he should get at least top 100. But since I rarely listen to Common and don't feel his music THAT much, I voted "neither"."

I see it BOTH ways, but vote what I personally feel about the artist.

"I'm not taking "influence" into consideration really either, I'm talking about the merits of their music, and not thinking about how much I personally like it. I can look at a car that runs really well and is a model of human ingenuity, but I still might not like it because of the ugly ass spoiler on the back and those fake plastic wal mart rims. Doesn't mean I can't say that it's the greatest car of all time, I just don't like it PERSONALLY."

That's where you and I differ. I will not call something the greatest of all time (or one of my favorites, in this case) if I don't feel it to be true. That is the reason I don't understand your comments sometimes. You will praise something VERY heavily, then downplay it or say you don't like it "personally" or whatever. Those are competing comments.

They're not competing, nor are the contradictory. I seriously don't see how you can't understand this very simple concept. Was the car metaphor too complicated?

And actually, you contradicted yourself by saying that you CAN see past your nose by proving that you don't listen to rolling stone and make your own decisions...that made "nose" sense whatsoever. If you could see past your own likes and dislikes you could OBJECTIVELY place him in the top 100 regardless of how you or rolling stone feels, just based on the artists merit. This is what music critics do all the time, Al...

Lord Emperor N3R0N0N wrote:

They're not competing, nor are the contradictory. I seriously don't see how you can't understand this very simple concept. Was the car metaphor too complicated?

And actually, you contradicted yourself by saying that you CAN see past your nose by proving that you don't listen to rolling stone and make your own decisions...that made "nose" sense whatsoever. If you could see past your own likes and dislikes you could OBJECTIVELY place him in the top 100 regardless of how you or rolling stone feels, just based on the artists merit. This is what music critics do all the time, Al...

I understand what you are saying with the car. I just don't agree with your reasoning for voting "objectively" as opposed to "personally". But you are entitled to do whatever you want. Calling someone top 100, then later saying they aren't even in your top 500 when you haven't even separated the two initially are contradictory comments. That is why we have been discussing it this long, Nero. I would have let up had you explained that first. I may have said I disagree with the way you vote, but you are the one taking issue with that.

I swear you try to complicate things this whole conversation. I vote for music I like, period. I did not contradict myself. I stated I objectively feel Common is top 100 MC, but not personally. Just like you and DJJJ&TFP. Only I vote with my personal preference. I don't give pity votes, nor do I vote to discourage debate.

Okay, thanks.

Ghost is better than Meth IMO, his style is one of the most unique and original styles in rap, and raps in very abstract ways that goes over most peoples heads.

take this for example:


"Caught up in the hollow-head suction
Ten pogo sticks, two black-belts that break bricks
Diet coke meetin's with the rich"

hes using deep metaphors like no one else. Hes describing coke in those lines above: Snorting coke with 10 straws, 2 guys (the black belts), that cut the coke, turning it into "diet coke" to sell. Theres no other rapper that can describe selling drugs in this manner. Ghost constantly does these under the radar metaphors and abstract references that it takes time to decipher, which is what makes him so great.

heres another line:

''Diapers, baby rattles and broke lighters, I led many
Horses to water, just to see if they like it''

In those lines hes talking about when he switched his style/flow up just before Supreme Clientele, and he says he was giving his fans something new with his new style (quenching the horses thirst), just to see if they liked it.

Ghost is one of the illest lyricists who has crazy metaphors and is gets extra credit for understanding how to bring emotion and energy into a track

heres another example:

"Ayo this rap is like ziti, facin me real tv
crash at high speed, strawberry kiwi"

could mean: My rap is well seasoned, your facin me, the realest, which will cause you to feel the impact of a car crash sweetheart

"Scientific, my hand kissed it
Robotic let's think optimistic
You probably missed it, watch me dolly dick it"

I grab the mic, think positive about my new complex flow and you'll like it, it flew over your head, but watch me fuck this track

GHOST is one of the GOATS

this is really dope too

Slang, I was with you til the strawberry kiwi shit. Ghost just spits nonsense sometimes.

Lord Emperor N3R0N0N wrote:

Slang, I was with you til the strawberry kiwi shit. Ghost just spits nonsense sometimes.

but thats whats so great about his rhymes, some stuff has clear meanings with the metaphors...like the black belts diet coke one, where others are open for the listener to interpret them in other ways

Ghost is the motherfucking Picasso of rap lol

Never gonna agree with you on that one. There is no "deeper meaning" behind his underwater song.

not all of them have a deeper meaning...but the ones that dont are open for interpretation

Fair enough? But you can interpret some one wiping shit on the wall as art, or some deeper message about their mindstate...or you can just call them fucking crazy.

I'm not saying all of Ghost's lyrics are like that, and I do admit he can be very deep and very dope, but I'm just saying I don't like his "genius" being shoved down my throat all the time when he literally has a song about spongebob squarepants in a cadillac underwater pimpin and listening to the Isleys...sometimes we pontificate too much, and shit is just shit.

LOL i see what you're saying, but those ridiculous songs he does are dope in a way IMO because they're so off the wall there funny, not because their "genius" or "profound"....The Forest is another example of this

but again thats a reason i like him so much because he can be extremely deep and full of emotion like on I Cant Go to Sleep and All That I Got is You, or he can be completely off the wall like on Nutmeg but sound dope as fuck doing it, using a complex rhyme scheme and a ton of energy...Some of the songs he has arent good because of there content/meaning, but there good because the way he delivers them and puts the words together

No one thinks Redman is top 50 because they think he is a "genius" lol

I understand what you're saying and I appreciate the fact you're willing to see another person's opinion.

Top 50

Top 50 without a doubt.

Ghostface is definitely Top 50. He's EASILY been the most consistent member of Wu-Tang, and he has the best overall discography in the crew.

Whether you're a Wu fan or not, you gotta give Ghost credit for keeping Wu relevant in this day and age of pop-bopper bullshit. Every Ghost album with the exception of Bulletproof Wallets is at least 4 stars, and 2 of them (Supreme Clientele and Ironman) are classics. OB4CL is just as much his album as it is Raekwon's IMO because he was on most of the tracks and outperformed Rae on many of them.

Ghost is in my personal Top 20, hence I voted him in the Top 50.

Slang Editorial wrote:

Ghost is better than Meth IMO, his style is one of the most unique and original styles in rap, and raps in very abstract ways that goes over most peoples heads.

GHOST is one of the GOATS

I co-sign 100%. Ghost trumps Meth IMO. It's funny how Meth is the biggest celeb in Wu-Tang, yet has one of the weakest overall discogs in the crew.