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 Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.

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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Tue 26 Jan 2010, 6:46 pm

Nor, Powell, and KJ I am not denying or saying that Rakim did not change the game. I agreed with you KJ that he was ahead of his time. Put I think and truly feel it more so because of his voice, rhyme cadence, and style. Not necessarily the actual words and the meaning of the rhyme. With his flow and voice he can make Hammer rhymes sound betta than ever. If a rapper that came out rhyming like Rakim right now none of you would call him a lyrical genius or that type of shit.

I think Kool G Rap and Kane both were more lyrical than Rakim overall. Oh yeah and if Nas was/is called the 2nd coming of Rakim well that shows what I am trying to say even more. Nas murks Rakim lyrically imo and he advanced the dope style Rakim laid down and added more lyrics to that cadence. Of course imo.
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Tue 26 Jan 2010, 6:49 pm

Looks Like a Job For... is a dope ass album
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Tue 26 Jan 2010, 7:53 pm

KRob86 wrote:
Nor, Powell, and KJ I am not denying or saying that Rakim did not change the game. I agreed with you KJ that he was ahead of his time. Put I think and truly feel it more so because of his voice, rhyme cadence, and style. Not necessarily the actual words and the meaning of the rhyme. With his flow and voice he can make Hammer rhymes sound betta than ever. If a rapper that came out rhyming like Rakim right now none of you would call him a lyrical genius or that type of shit.

I think Kool G Rap and Kane both were more lyrical than Rakim overall. Oh yeah and if Nas was/is called the 2nd coming of Rakim well that shows what I am trying to say even more. Nas murks Rakim lyrically imo and he advanced the dope style Rakim laid down and added more lyrics to that cadence. Of course imo.

As much as I respect G Rap and Kane, neither of them are better than Rakim lyrically. I think Nas may be on par with him line for line, but I wouldn't say he murks him. No disrespect Kev, but I think you're just saying this because you're not a fan of his style, and it's cool. But he's easily one of the best all time lyricists. I can give you verses for days and I doubt you'll find too many cats that can fuck with the R. Yes he does have dope flow and rhyme cadence but tracks like Microphone Fiend, My Melody, Follow The Leader, I Know You Got Soul, I Ain't No Joke, Eric B. Is President, Lyrics Of Fury, Know The Ledge, Let The Rhythm Hit Em, The Ghetto, and Don't Sweat The Technique among others ALL still hold weight today.

There's a reason why he's the most quoted MC of all time, it's because his rhymes are dope and timeless. Even your GOAT Scarface called Rakim the GOAT. What more proof do you need? The man makes you hit the rewind button probably more than any MC in history because you wanna memorize his shit!!!

If an MC like Rakim came out today, I would most definitely be calling him a lyrical genius ESPECIALLY with the sad state of hip-hop right now that values marketability over talent. His first 3 albums MURK most people's entire discographies!!!

I understand that each is to their own. If you're not a fan of his then that's fine, but to say Rakim isn't a lyrical genius would be like saying Jordan wasn't a basketball genius. He's just that damn great!

And to Slang, I agree that Looks Like A Job For was bangin. I rate it at about 4.25-4.5.
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Tue 26 Jan 2010, 7:59 pm

G Rap, Kane, and Nas>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rakim, lyrically. You know this.

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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Tue 26 Jan 2010, 8:15 pm

Shaun wrote:
G Rap, Kane, and Nas>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rakim, lyrically. You know this.



GTFOH with that bullshit!!
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Tue 26 Jan 2010, 9:12 pm

Shaun wrote:
G Rap, Kane, and Nas>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rakim, lyrically. You know this.

bahahahaha!!!!! Anyone who doubts Rakim's skill can't possibly be paying attention. His rhymes are flawless. Just listen to that song The Punisher. G Rap tends to ramble on a bit too much to even touch Rakim
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Wed 27 Jan 2010, 11:01 am

Just because his rhymes (style) is flawless does not make him a lyrical genuis. Now if you mean a lyrical genuis in the way he uses/chooses words to flow than I can see that. But if you mean the lyrical depth of the words than I still disagree.
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Wed 27 Jan 2010, 11:49 am

KRob86 wrote:
Just because his rhymes (style) is flawless does not make him a lyrical genuis. Now if you mean a lyrical genuis in the way he uses/chooses words to flow than I can see that. But if you mean the lyrical depth of the words than I still disagree.


Wow Kev I'm surprised you feel this way about Rakim man...I know your not his biggest fan and that is respected but to question this dude's LYRICAL skills sounds crazy to me man....this dude LYRICALLY is easily one of the best ever do it..it's more than just his flow and rhyme cadence that makes me say that, I'm kinda surprised that you can't see this...

I hate to do this to you man but here goes:

Rakim>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Scarface, Willie "Damn" D and Bushwick Bill COMBINED

of course IN MY OPINION....lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Wed 27 Jan 2010, 12:04 pm

If this ain't lyrical genius, then I don't know what is.....

I was a fiend before I became a teen
I melted microphones instead of cones of ice cream
Music orientated so when hip-hop was originated
Fitted like pieces of puzzles, complicated
'Cause I grabbed the mic and try to say, Yes y'all!
They tried to take it, and say that I'm too small
Cool, 'Cause I don't get upset
I kick a hole in the speaker, pull the plug, then I jet
Back to the lab ...without a mic to grab
So then I add all the rhymes I had
One after the other one, then I make another one
To dis the opposite then ask if the brother's done
I get a craving like I fiend for nicotine
But I don't need a cigarette, know what I mean?
I'm raging, ripping up the stage and
Don't it sound amazing 'cause every rhyme is made and
Thought of, Cuz it's sort of...an addiction,
Magnatized by the mixing
Vocals, vocabulary, your verses, you're stuck in
The mic is a drano, volcanoes erupting,
Rhymes overflowing, gradually growing
Everything is written in code, so it can coin-
cide, my thoughts to guide,
48 tracks to slide
The invincible, microphone fiend Rakim
Spread the word, 'cause I'm in
E-F-F-E-C-T
A smooth operator operating correctly,
But back to the problem, I gotta habit,
You can't solve it, silly rabbit
The prescription is a hypertone that's thorough when
I fiend for a microphone like heroin
Soon as the bass kicks, I need a fix
Gimme a stage and a mic and a mix
And I'll put you in a mood or is it a state of
unawareness? Beware, it's the re-animator!
A menace to a microphone, a lethal weapon
An assasinator, if the people ain't stepping
You see a part of me that you never seen
When I'm fiending for a microphone, I'm the microphone fiend...
(Verse 2:)
After 12, I'm worse that a Gremlin
Feed me Hip-hop and I start trembling
The thrill of suspense is intense, your horrified
But this ain't the cinemas of Tales From the Darkside,
By any means neccesary, this is what has to be done
Make way 'cause here I come....
My DJ cuts material....
Grand imperial.
It's a must that I bust any mic you're hand to me,
It's inherited, it's runs in the family
I wrote the rhyme that broke the bull's back,
If that don't slow 'em up, I carry a full pack.
Now I don't want to have to let off, you should of kept off
You didn't keep the stage warm, step off!
Ladies and Gentleman, You're about to see
A pasttime hobby about to be
Take it to the maximum, I can't relax see, I'm
Hype as a hyperchrondriac 'cause the rap be one-
Hell of a antidote, something you can't smoke
More than dope, you're trying to move away but you can't, you're broke
More than cracked up, you should have backed up
For those who act up need to be more than smacked up
Any entertainer, I got a torture chamber
One on one and I'm the remainder!
So close your eyes and hold your breath,
And I'm a hit'cha wit the blow of death
Before you go, you'll remember you seen
The fiend of a microphone, I'm the microphone fiend
The microphone fiend...
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Wed 27 Jan 2010, 3:56 pm

KJ that rhyme is lyrical no doubt but it is not "lyrical genuis". C'mon Son!
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Wed 27 Jan 2010, 4:02 pm

KRob86 wrote:
KJ that rhyme is lyrical no doubt but it is not "lyrical genuis". C'mon Son!

C'Mon Son!!! Everyone on here except YOU sees that Rakim is a lyrical genius. You're simply not a Rakim fan. There's nothing else to it than that.
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Wed 27 Jan 2010, 4:11 pm

Well that means being a fan clouds your judgement from objectively judging him. I like a lot of Rakim music and a matter of fact his '09 album made my top 10, remember that?

Show me more than one Rakim song on the level of I Gave You Power, I Used To Love HER, Two Sides To A Story, or even Come Clean lyrically.
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Wed 27 Jan 2010, 4:15 pm

KRob86 wrote:
Well that means being a fan clouds your judgement from objectively judging him. I like a lot of Rakim music and a matter of fact his '09 album made my top 10, remember that?

Show me more than one Rakim song on the level of I Gave You Power, I Used To Love HER, Two Sides To A Story, or even Come Clean lyrically.

Dude....I just gave you one. I could give you more but it'd be a waste of time because you're STILL not gonna see it.

And being a fan DOES NOT cloud my judgement. The consensus of Hip-Hop Nation is that Rakim is a lyrical genius. Even your man Face called him the lyrical GOAT.
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Wed 27 Jan 2010, 7:58 pm

lyrically "Lyrics of Fury" shits on all those songs you just mentioned combined
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Wed 27 Jan 2010, 8:45 pm

C'mon KJ,

Nas is not better than G Rap or BDK lyrically, let alone Rakim.
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Wed 27 Jan 2010, 8:54 pm

Alan wrote:
C'mon KJ,

Nas is not better than G Rap or BDK lyrically, let alone Rakim.

I think Nas is better lyrically than G Rap and BDK (he's maintained quality LP's FAR longer than those two) and he can hang with Rakim line for line.

But you misread the last several posts Pounds. Kevin was trying to say that Rakim wasn't a lyrical genius and I thought that was a blasphemous statement (as did everyone else that read it). If there's ever been a lyrical genius in this rap game, it's been the R.
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Wed 27 Jan 2010, 9:00 pm

I personally think there is little to no substance on most Rakim albums, but IMO he's the epitome of lyrical genius. From a straight rhyming perspective, he'd rap circles around Nas IMO. Nas' substance is where he pulls away from Rakim.

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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Wed 27 Jan 2010, 11:10 pm

Nas is a great lyricist with deep subject matter in his songs, and I've enjoyed all but one of his albums. That's why he's the best rapper alive IMO.
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Wed 27 Jan 2010, 11:14 pm

KJ Styles wrote:
Nas is a great lyricist with deep subject matter in his songs, and I've enjoyed all but one of his albums. That's why he's the best rapper alive IMO.

I agree with that, but even you'd have to admit that based off of straight lyricism Nas ain't touching Rakim.

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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Thu 28 Jan 2010, 2:12 pm

Nas eats Rakim shits him out and than washes away the pile of shit with a water hose. Rakim=Pioneer, trensetter, flowmaster, lyricists thats it imo. Lyrical genuis? GTFOH!

No one has showed me nothing more genuis than Gave You Power or even Open Thought Surgery from Rakim. Please show me. I am very open minded about this, break something down from Rakim that was mind boggling.
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Thu 28 Jan 2010, 2:15 pm

I don't understand how a former rapper can't distinguish the difference between lyricism and subject matter. Having substance to your rhymes does not make you lyrical. At least in my opinion, it doesn't. My main gripe with Rakim has always been is lack of deep subject matter, but his lyrics are damn near flawless. Nas has never ever put words together like Rakim. Period.

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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Thu 28 Jan 2010, 2:18 pm

"No one has showed me nothing more genuis than Gave You Power or even Open Thought Surgery from K-Rino. Please show me. I am very open minded about this, break something down from Rakim that was mind boggling."

Fixed

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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Thu 28 Jan 2010, 2:28 pm

T. Myers wrote:
I don't understand how a former rapper can't distinguish the difference between lyricism and subject matter. Having substance to your rhymes does not make you lyrical. At least in my opinion, it doesn't. My main gripe with Rakim has always been is lack of deep subject matter, but his lyrics are damn near flawless. Nas has never ever put words together like Rakim. Period.

co sign

subject matter has nothing to do with lyricism
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Thu 28 Jan 2010, 2:29 pm

T. Myers wrote:
KJ Styles wrote:
Nas is a great lyricist with deep subject matter in his songs, and I've enjoyed all but one of his albums. That's why he's the best rapper alive IMO.

I agree with that, but even you'd have to admit that based off of straight lyricism Nas ain't touching Rakim.

Ehhh I dunno. Even if that is the case, I don't think the gap is all that wide between them. Even Rakim (who has praised Nas on MANY occasions) would say the same.

And to Kev, it's pointless to debate this further with you because you're never gonna see it. I co-sign Terry in that I don't see how you can't distinguish great lyricism being a former MC yourself. I just think that Rakim isn't your cup of tea, and that's fine. But to say that dude isn't a lyrical genius is absurd.

And to Shaun....K-Rino ain't fuckin with any of the dudes mentioned in this entire thread, so GTFOH with that bullshit!
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Thu 28 Jan 2010, 2:41 pm

Lyrically (and only lyrics), to me, he is. But, I wasn't saying that. I was just correcting Kev's mistake (he said Open Thought Surgery by Rakim, when that is a K-Rino song. Unless I'm missing something.... lol)

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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Thu 28 Jan 2010, 3:00 pm

T. Myers wrote:
I don't understand how a former rapper can't distinguish the difference between lyricism and subject matter. Having substance to your rhymes does not make you lyrical. At least in my opinion, it doesn't. My main gripe with Rakim has always been is lack of deep subject matter, but his lyrics are damn near flawless. Nas has never ever put words together like Rakim. Period.



1 BILLION PERCENT CO-SIGNAGE


Kev I'm shocked man...but hey it is what it is...


on that mic device Rakim IN MY OPINION is the GOAT....Nas is not too far behind him though lyrically...I just think the way/style that Rakim did his shit is just a little bit better than Nas is but it's not by all that much, I mean both dudes are first ballot hip-hop hall of famers at least IN MY OPINION.....

Oh and Shaun get K-Rino out of this conversation man, please...that dude is lyrical but he is nowhere near neither Nas nor Rakim nor a few others on that mic device at least IN MY OPINION he's not...lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Thu 28 Jan 2010, 3:08 pm

KRob86 wrote:
I agree that Rakim was ahead of his time and that is where my theory lies and unfolds. He stood out amongst the talent level of the 80's where you only had Big Daddy Kane and KRS One really making innovative moves lyrically in the 80's. I know there were plenty of other lyrical rappers that started in the 80's but none stood out soley for their lyrics like these 3. In the 90's they meet a slew of new young hungry lyrical emcees who took their influence and added to it imo. That is one of the reasons I think they did not make so much noise in the 90's, the comp was 3-4x heavier than what they dealt with in the 80's.


The fact that they gave birth to these styles and rappers is pretty much what I got out of that line right there.

All the arrows point back to Rakim if you look at it realistically.

Just sayin'...
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Thu 28 Jan 2010, 3:14 pm

Alan wrote:
C'mon KJ,

Nas is not better than G Rap or BDK lyrically, let alone Rakim.

Nas is better than G Rap. As for BDK,well, I like the fact that BDK sticks to topics he knows about, while Nas say shit that he has no clue about, but pretends he does.

As for RAKIM he's definitely the GOD of hip hop. His resume is flawless, never made a wack song, never did stupid shit in the public eye. Also I like the fact he does his albums all by himself never jumping on a new artist dick to get them to cameo a single. The man is very mysterious. A true living legend. A class by himself.

But Biggie is uncomparable to Rakim. Rakim is anti-matter to biggies materialistic raps
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Thu 28 Jan 2010, 3:28 pm

"Oh and Shaun get K-Rino out of this conversation man, please...that dude is lyrical but he is nowhere near neither Nas nor Rakim nor a few others on that mic device at least IN MY OPINION he's not...lol!"

K-Rino has mad potential but made too many questionable songs. Some songs he nails it and others he asleep at the wheel. It also doesn't help he surrounds himself with the mediocre talent of the SPC rappers with the exception of a few good mcs like Dope-E. But then again he's tryna appeal to his southern kin so I can't blame him for making all those Hokey-Pokey songs. I'm like the south wouldn't know talent if it came in a watermelon or a bucket of chicken.
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Thu 28 Jan 2010, 3:51 pm

Dang! Trotter wrote:
Alan wrote:
C'mon KJ,

Nas is not better than G Rap or BDK lyrically, let alone Rakim.

Nas is better than G Rap. As for BDK,well, I like the fact that BDK sticks to topics he knows about, while Nas say shit that he has no clue about, but pretends he does.

As for RAKIM he's definitely the GOD of hip hop. His resume is flawless, never made a wack song, never did stupid shit in the public eye. Also I like the fact he does his albums all by himself never jumping on a new artist dick to get them to cameo a single. The man is very mysterious. A true living legend. A class by himself.

But Biggie is uncomparable to Rakim. Rakim is anti-matter to biggies materialistic raps

Biggie was awesome. You hate anything mainstream so that's why you don't like him. Biggie had dope hardcore tracks as well (Warning, Machine Gun Funk, Everyday Struggle, What's Beef, bunnies Bleed, Ten Crack Commandments) but he had the mainstream commercial tracks in order to sell records. Let's face it, if you don't make ANY commercial tracks, you're NOT gonna sell.

Biggie wanted to make Machine Gun Funk his first single on Ready To Die, but Diddy told him that he needed to make something more radio friendly in order to move major units, hence Juicy became his first single. Juicy is one of my all time fav songs so I didn't have a problem with it.

The reason I love Biggie so much is because he combined hardcore and commercial rhymes better than anyone in the history of the game IMO. While he might not been as lyrical as Rakim or Nas, he's without question one of the dopest lyricists and punchline MC's ever. I'm also sick of the "he wasn't around long enough" bullshit people use to deny Biggie his rightful place among GOAT MC's. He made a bigger impact in 3 years than 98% of MC's do in an entire career. He was a game changer, and he was the undisputed King of NY at the time. All that speaks volumes.

Trotter, you're hatin on Biggie just as Kev is hatin on Rakim. If you don't like him then that's fine. But saying he's the most overrated entertainer of all time is fucking absurd.
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Thu 28 Jan 2010, 4:19 pm

"Oh and Shaun get K-Rino out of this conversation man, please...that dude is lyrical but he is nowhere near neither Nas nor Rakim nor a few others on that mic device at least IN MY OPINION he's not...lol! "

SMH. I didn't bring him into the conversation, Kev did. I just fixed his mistake... lol

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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Thu 28 Jan 2010, 4:20 pm

T. Myers wrote:
I don't understand how a former rapper can't distinguish the difference between lyricism and subject matter. Having substance to your rhymes does not make you lyrical. At least in my opinion, it doesn't. My main gripe with Rakim has always been is lack of deep subject matter, but his lyrics are damn near flawless. Nas has never ever put words together like Rakim. Period.

That is the point i am a former rapper and understand constructing rhymes and lyrics. I agree that having substance in your rhyme is not a given for lyrical. But ego mumbo jumbo does not equal lyrical either. To me lyrical means carefully choosen words used to construct a thought or convey a point of view that stop you in your trks that they even thought about putting them together. Rakim is good at flowing words together and he is lyrical no doubt. But I have a real problem with lyrical genuis. Thats bullshit.

Well let me ask y'all this, is Rakim the only lyrical genius? Who are some more examples of these genuis?
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Thu 28 Jan 2010, 4:22 pm

Shaun wrote:
"Oh and Shaun get K-Rino out of this conversation man, please...that dude is lyrical but he is nowhere near neither Nas nor Rakim nor a few others on that mic device at least IN MY OPINION he's not...lol! "

SMH. I didn't bring him into the conversation, Kev did. I just fixed his mistake... lol

I didn't make a mistake I was asking people to show me a song as deep lyrically like the two I mentioned by Rakim. I know Open Thought Surgery is not by Rakim come on Shaun.
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Thu 28 Jan 2010, 4:24 pm

I just re-read it... lol. But, still, I wasn't the one who brought him up

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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Thu 28 Jan 2010, 5:30 pm

KRob86 wrote:
T. Myers wrote:
I don't understand how a former rapper can't distinguish the difference between lyricism and subject matter. Having substance to your rhymes does not make you lyrical. At least in my opinion, it doesn't. My main gripe with Rakim has always been is lack of deep subject matter, but his lyrics are damn near flawless. Nas has never ever put words together like Rakim. Period.

That is the point i am a former rapper and understand constructing rhymes and lyrics. I agree that having substance in your rhyme is not a given for lyrical. But ego mumbo jumbo does not equal lyrical either. To me lyrical means carefully choosen words used to construct a thought or convey a point of view that stop you in your trks that they even thought about putting them together. Rakim is good at flowing words together and he is lyrical no doubt. But I have a real problem with lyrical genuis. Thats bullshit.

Well let me ask y'all this, is Rakim the only lyrical genius? Who are some more examples of these genuis?

to be lyrical does not mean you have to have substance or convey a point
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Thu 28 Jan 2010, 7:55 pm

Kev, what would be examples of lyrical genius to you? And what is it that you feel Rakim of all people is lacking?
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Thu 28 Jan 2010, 8:02 pm

Kev, you seriously need to go back and listen to Rakim's first four albums front to back and peep the wordplay. If you still can't see it after that, then just chalk it up to you not being a Rakim fan and call it a day. Everybody except you sees the lyrical genius in Rakim. Several examples were given, and like a elderly man with glacoma you STILL don't see it.

No, he's not the ONLY lyrical genius but he's EASILY at or near the top of the list. Even Scarface (your GOAT) sees it, so why can't you? It doesn't make sense to me, but what the fuck ever. Everybody else sees it.
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Thu 28 Jan 2010, 11:36 pm

I could careless what Face thinks about Rakim, he grew up on Rakim more so than I did so I expect more of a connection with him from Face.

Peterson I already stated what my problem was, its not with Rakim personally its with people calling him a lyrical genius.

I asked you guys two simple questions and no one has answered. I asked is Rakim the only "lyrical genius? And what are some others if so? Peterson you are asking me to answer my own question but I will not, I do not want to give away any ideas.

Just for the record and to clear things up let me tell you what I overstand and feel about Rakim:

1. He is a hip hop legend
2. He was a pioneer and trensetter of a new style.
3. He is one of the best flowers in the game period.
4. Has one of the best deliveries and voices in hip hop history.
5. One of the most copied rappers ever due to his major influence on anybody who started rapping up until about post 2000.

So I am not trying debate his place in our hearts and minds, I just have a problem with this undeserved lyrical genius stuff.
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Thu 28 Jan 2010, 11:40 pm

If Rakim isn't a lyrical genius, who is? That's what i want to know?

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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Thu 28 Jan 2010, 11:43 pm

KJ Styles wrote:
Alan wrote:
C'mon KJ,

Nas is not better than G Rap or BDK lyrically, let alone Rakim.

I think Nas is better lyrically than G Rap and BDK (he's maintained quality LP's FAR longer than those two) and he can hang with Rakim line for line.

Nah, I'm not seeing it. A long career does not mean you are a better lyricist. It means you're marketable. G Rap and BDK (and Rakim) have more classics anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Fri 29 Jan 2010, 12:00 am

T. Myers wrote:
If Rakim isn't a lyrical genius, who is? That's what i want to know?

Terry once again you tell me? Is Rakim the ONLY lyrical genius in your opinion?

And Pounds a longer career does not mean you are marketable it most of the time means you were consistant enough to keep your core fan base in tact for decades. Nas has more classic imo than G Rap and BDK. Not many more but maybe one or two more.
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Fri 29 Jan 2010, 12:05 am

Rakim is not the only lyrical genius, and being great with the lyrics does not make you a great mc either.

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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Fri 29 Jan 2010, 12:08 am

Thank you Terry for answering one of the questions, next can you give one or two more examples of lyrical genius?
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Fri 29 Jan 2010, 12:09 am

Alan wrote:
KJ Styles wrote:
Alan wrote:
C'mon KJ,

Nas is not better than G Rap or BDK lyrically, let alone Rakim.

I think Nas is better lyrically than G Rap and BDK (he's maintained quality LP's FAR longer than those two) and he can hang with Rakim line for line.

Nah, I'm not seeing it. A long career does not mean you are a better lyricist. It means you're marketable. G Rap and BDK (and Rakim) have more classics anyway.

co sign, Nas has a bunch of very good albums but only 1 sure fire classic, MAYBE 2

G Rap and Kane have at least 2 definite classics
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Fri 29 Jan 2010, 12:11 am

KRob86 wrote:
Thank you Terry for answering one of the questions, next can you give one or two more examples of lyrical genius?

Well, Canibus has rhymes for days, and i think he's kinda lame as an mc. However, Pharoahe Monch is bananas IMO, and he's a complete mc to me.

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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Fri 29 Jan 2010, 12:17 am

So when you hear Canibus and Pharoah lyrics compared to Rakim lyrics; not flow, not voice, not beats, not delivery, str8 lyrics. You cannot see the BIG as advancement lyrically between them and him?

For his day and era of exposure could he have been considered a lyrical genius? ...I can see that. But that means BDK, KRS, and G Rap were also..right?
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Fri 29 Jan 2010, 12:21 am

Slang Editorial wrote:
Alan wrote:
KJ Styles wrote:
Alan wrote:
C'mon KJ,

Nas is not better than G Rap or BDK lyrically, let alone Rakim.

I think Nas is better lyrically than G Rap and BDK (he's maintained quality LP's FAR longer than those two) and he can hang with Rakim line for line.

Nah, I'm not seeing it. A long career does not mean you are a better lyricist. It means you're marketable. G Rap and BDK (and Rakim) have more classics anyway.

co sign, Nas has a bunch of very good albums but only 1 sure fire classic, MAYBE 2

G Rap and Kane have at least 2 definite classics

oh and i was cosigning the classic albums part...who's better lyrically among the 3 is debatable
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Fri 29 Jan 2010, 12:23 am

Alan wrote:
KJ Styles wrote:
Alan wrote:
C'mon KJ,

Nas is not better than G Rap or BDK lyrically, let alone Rakim.

I think Nas is better lyrically than G Rap and BDK (he's maintained quality LP's FAR longer than those two) and he can hang with Rakim line for line.

Nah, I'm not seeing it. A long career does not mean you are a better lyricist. It means you're marketable. G Rap and BDK (and Rakim) have more classics anyway.

I'll take 1 or 2 consensus classics and a long career of 4+ star albums over 2 or 3 classics and a bunch of duds.

G Rap hasn't had a good album since 4, 5, 6 and Kane hasn't since Looks Like A Job For. Nas is FAR more consistent than either of them. I also feel Nas is more versatile with his subject matter and he can match either of them line for line. Hence I give Nas the edge. He's a more complete MC IMO.

Whether or not you consider Stillmatic, Lost Tapes, and It Was Written classics, they are EASILY better than anything G Rap or Kane has done in 15+ years. Hell, I'd even put God's Son, HHID, and Untitled better than anything those guys have done in that same timeframe.

Who's more lyrical is debatable, but who's more consistent is not.
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Fri 29 Jan 2010, 12:29 am

KRob86 wrote:
So when you hear Canibus and Pharoah lyrics compared to Rakim lyrics; not flow, not voice, not beats, not delivery, str8 lyrics. You cannot see the BIG as advancement lyrically between them and him?

For his day and era of exposure could he have been considered a lyrical genius? ...I can see that. But that means BDK, KRS, and G Rap were also..right?

How can you say that Rakim doesn't deserve to be called a lyrical genius! He's ILL with his wordplay. And YES, those guys are lyrical geniuses as well. As are Nas, Black Thought, and Andre 3000 just to name a few more.
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PostSubject: Re: Biggie Smalls--The most overrated entertainer ever.   Fri 29 Jan 2010, 2:57 am

You know what...

Fuck 'em all!
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