Ludacris?

I just cannot really see the "great" lyricism in this man. I have been checking him out since I heard him on that comp album The Realest Down South. I knew he was something special then because of his voice and delivery mostly. I also liked some of his punchlines but it was nothing mind blowing or unique about hisl lyrics to me. He has yet to drop a classic album imo and most of his albums has a lot of filler. I was reading a article that asked should Luda be considered a top 5 emcee and I almost laughed my ass off. I'm thinking should Luda be considered a top 20 emcee let alone a top 5.

Luda falls in that Busta Rhymes, Redman, Keith Murray, Nelly, Meth, etc etc catergory imo where they made some impact and/or they had some bomb singles but overall they were just some entertaining rappers. Now this is no diss especially to Redman because imo he has the best discog outta the ones I mentioned but just a observation.

Any thoughts?

You wrong.

Luda is a EXCELLENT lyricist. While I wouldn't put him on a level with guys like Rakim or Nas, he's still a dope lyricist with some great punchlines and hits for days.

I agree that he doesn't have a consensus classic album (although I consider Back For The First Time a personal classic) but none of his albums are below 3.5 stars IMO (I have Release Therapy at 3,5 and the rest at 4 or better). But his overall talent level and relevance cannot be denied. He may not be a GOAT candidate, but he's easily one of the best post 2000 MC's. He's probably among my Top 30-50 rappers of all time.

KJ Styles wrote:

Luda is a EXCELLENT lyricist. While I wouldn't put him on a level with guys like Rakim or Nas, he's still a dope lyricist with some great punchlines and hits for days.

I agree that he doesn't have a consensus classic album (although I consider Back For The First Time a personal classic) but none of his albums are below 3.5 stars IMO (I have Release Therapy at 3,5 and the rest at 4 or better). But his overall talent level and relevance cannot be denied. He may not be a GOAT candidate, but he's easily one of the best post 2000 MC's. He's probably among my Top 30-50 rappers of all time.

Cosign. :albino:

KJ Styles wrote:

Luda is a EXCELLENT lyricist. While I wouldn't put him on a level with guys like Rakim or Nas, he's still a dope lyricist with some great punchlines and hits for days.

I agree that he doesn't have a consensus classic album (although I consider Back For The First Time a personal classic) but none of his albums are below 3.5 stars IMO (I have Release Therapy at 3,5 and the rest at 4 or better). But his overall talent level and relevance cannot be denied. He may not be a GOAT candidate, but he's easily one of the best post 2000 MC's. He's probably among my Top 30-50 rappers of all time.

cosign for the most part

Luda's talent is undeniable, he melts mics and his persona can carry any track he shows up on

I'll co-sign KJ and SRP on this one. I'll even say BFTFT and WOM are personal classics. What would you consider filler on those two albums Kev?

I don't see excellent lyricism at all I just see very simple punchlines.

Terry as for your question:

BFTFT to me was not a cohesive album it was just a bunch of songs about noting really to me for the most part. WOM is my fav Luda album and the one I feel is closest to a classic. So there was not really any filler on that album.

The filler or weak songs to me on BFTFT were:
Phat rabbit
Get Of Me
What's Your Fantasy (neva was a big fan of this song)
Hood Stuck
And some others I can't remember right now. I need to listen to it again.

For the record I do think Luda is one of the best post 2000 emcees period. And objectively I could see him in the top 5 for post 2000 easily. But on the grand scale of things I think he is more top 50-75.

Not a clue why people think Luda is a "excellent" lyricist. Far from it from the 2 albums I've heard. Full of filler too IMO. I definitely liked Chicken & Beer more than his debut. Which I'd give about 3.5 stars.

Slang Editorial wrote:

he melts mics and his persona can carry any track he shows up on

LOL...what?

I'm not surprised that you don't like Luda much Pounds. No offense but next to Trotter you're pretty much Mr Anti-Mainstream around here.

Many of the lines that Luda drops make me hit the rewind/playback button. Like I said earlier, he's not a GOAT candidate but he consistently drops dope lines and has a smooth flow. Simple punchlines? I beg to differ. Simple punchlines would be from guys like Lil Wayne or Young Jeezy.

And to Kev, Luda is more or less a party rapper although he does occasionally rhyme about serious issues (Runaway Love, Hard Times). I disagree on your stand on BFTFT. I could easily listen to it from front to back but I seriously can't see a rating of under 4 stars for it even objectively.

Honestly, I don't even understand why you created this thread. The consensus opinion of Luda from hip-hop nation is pretty much what I typed above. Nobody's calling him a GOAT MC, but he's FAR from wack and easily one of the best post 2000 MC's. And you also need to remember that it was your GOAT Scarface who signed him.

IMO Ludacris is lyrical...dude can spit his ass off, I'm surprised by anyone who can't see this...I think his over the top personality and crazy ass videos have thrown you for a loop Kev..this dude can spit man...he doesn't talk about much and is certainly a party emcee if I ever saw one , but dude is talented, has flow, a decent voice, and can spit...I've got him in my top 45 of all-time...around 44 or 45...Luda is dope!

KRob86 wrote:

I don't see excellent lyricism at all I just see very simple punchlines.

Terry as for your question:

BFTFT to me was not a cohesive album it was just a bunch of songs about noting really to me for the most part. WOM is my fav Luda album and the one I feel is closest to a classic. So there was not really any filler on that album.

The filler or weak songs to me on BFTFT were:
Phat rabbit
Get Of Me
What's Your Fantasy (neva was a big fan of this song)
Hood Stuck
And some others I can't remember right now. I need to listen to it again.

For the record I do think Luda is one of the best post 2000 emcees period. And objectively I could see him in the top 5 for post 2000 easily. But on the grand scale of things I think he is more top 50-75.

Hood Stuck is the only one i'd agree with. Phat Rabbit is dope, What's Your Fantasy is dope, but it did get annoying. Get Off Me is dope. PT kills the track IMO. Word of Mouf is my fav too. I think it's a more balanced album, and Luda is definitely more polished.

D.Powell wrote:

IMO Ludacris is lyrical...dude can spit his ass off, I'm surprised by anyone who can't see this...I think his over the top personality and crazy ass videos have thrown you for a loop Kev..this dude can spit man...he doesn't talk about much and is certainly a party emcee if I ever saw one , but dude is talented, has flow, a decent voice, and can spit...I've got him in my top 45 of all-time...around 44 or 45...Luda is dope!

Good point Powell and I will not deny his over the top personality and crazy videos are a big distraction from me taken him seriously. Just like Busta and Redman. I have never been the biggest fan of the all delivery str8 party emcees. I know he can spit but I don't hear this greatness in his lyrics.

This is how I rank and rate his discog:

Word Of Mouf- 4.5
Red Light District- 4.0
Theater Of The Mind- 4.0-4.25
Chicken-n-Beer- 3.75
Release Therapy- 3.5
BFTFT-3.5

I've went back and forth on Luda over the years. I never thought he was wack or anything. I only own Back For The First Time, Word Of Mouf, and Theater Of The Mind. Is he in top 5? Not in my opinion. He does have his place in hip hop though, can't deny that.

Kev, your ratings are wayyyy the fuck off.

Back For The First Time- I have it at 5 stars personally but I can't see less than 4.25-4.5.
Word Of Mouf- 4.5
Chicken & Beer- 4-4.25
The Red Light District- 4
Release Therapy- 3.5
Theater Of The Mind- 4.25-4.5

"Blow it out your ass" was alright. I do like his shots at Bill O'Rielly. I'd put him in a top 100.

You've got to be kidding about Busta Rhymes ("Call me athiest cuz I don't believe in you, God"), Redman ("Ridin water buffaloes to the source awards"), METHOD MAN, KEITH MURRAY???...

I don't get you Kev, you say Scarface is lyrical but these cats aren't?

And ya'll just hating on "What's Your Fantasy" cuz dude that produced is from IOWA. HATERS.

I personally listen to Chicken & Bear the most.

But I would categorize him as the great punchline MC like Redman, Busta Rhymes, etc. I do think he's a great lyricist and he's been fairly consistent. I too like Phat Rabbit and Fantasy. But i wonder if why his works aren't considered classics is because we expect him to be a wild out rapper like Busta, Red, etc. on a subconscious level so we don't truly weigh his deep moments or is it the higher degree of commercialism in their rap?

Another point I was going to make is this is what we expect from these type of rappers. Are we really looking for Busta to give us Illmatic or ELE?

TheHazardous wrote:

Another point I was going to make is this is what we expect from these type of rappers. Are we really looking for Busta to give us Illmatic or ELE?

I wouldn't expect Busta to give us illmatic cause illmatic sucks and I don't expect Busta to drop such wack albums. Though he has come close lately.

N3R0 wrote:

You've got to be kidding about Busta Rhymes ("Call me athiest cuz I don't believe in you, God"), Redman ("Ridin water buffaloes to the source awards"), METHOD MAN, KEITH MURRAY???...

I don't get you Kev, you say Scarface is lyrical but these cats aren't?

And ya'll just hating on "What's Your Fantasy" cuz dude that produced is from IOWA. HATERS.

I did not say they were NOT lyrical Jeff....I just said their delivery and energy carries them more so than lyrics imo. I know Busta, Redman, and others are lyricists to a degree just not great or excellent lyricists.

Lionel Hutz wrote:

TheHazardous wrote:

Another point I was going to make is this is what we expect from these type of rappers. Are we really looking for Busta to give us Illmatic or ELE?

I wouldn't expect Busta to give us illmatic cause illmatic sucks and I don't expect Busta to drop such wack albums. Though he has come close lately.

Illmatic>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Anything Busta has ever dropped

Redman is an EXCELLENT lyricist

Slang Editorial wrote:

Redman is an EXCELLENT lyricist

Agreed

Redman can at times be a excellent lyricists most of the time he is just lyrical. Redman is one of my fav rappers because of his style and lyrics so I know he has skills. BUt you cats throw around the wrong adjectives when describing certain rappers.

You call Scarface lyrical, and then say Luda isn't. But WE throw around the wrong adjectives.

N3R0 wrote:

You call Scarface lyrical, and then say Luda isn't. But WE throw around the wrong adjectives.

lol agreed, being lyrical and being an excellent lyricist is the same damn thing!!!

No it is not. Learn about it. The word "excellent" alone seperates the said person from a lyricists already. If that was the case Slang every rapper you thought was lyrical is an excellent lyricists. We know thats not true.

I have never said Fave was an excellent lyricsts did I Jeff? Have you ever heard me put that on that man? Face has kicked some excellent lyrics before but everytime he raps its not excellent. And neither is Luda. What happens is people just talk out their ass and put this extra chesse on their fav rappers. Its all about the wording, if someone said Luda was lyrical I would not have even said anything. But when you put "excellent" or "lyrical genius" on someone you better be ready to defend it.

So Jeff you're saying face is not lyrical? But Haystak is right?

If you want to get all pissy you can K.Rob but in your own original post you said NOTHING about a fucking excellent lyricist - you said "great" which I assume is different than excellent.

And no one has said a thing about "lyrical genius" whatever that may mean to you or whoever else.

I don't have the time to waste to dig it up - but you've thrown Face's name out there on more than one occasion when talking about lyrical rappers.

Everyone here has stated they think Ludacris is a lyrical rapper - probably a great to excellent one. Redman is too. If you can't see that it's just a difference of taste and nothing more.

I've never said that, fool. I don't pretend that lyricism is the only thing that seperates mc's. And there have been multiple conversations about you thinking Face is a 'lyricist' by ANY definition and now you're calling Method Man and Redman "party mc's". Seems ridiculous by most people's standards. All I'm saying.

Lionel Hutz wrote:

If you want to get all pissy you can K.Rob but in your own original post you said NOTHING about a fucking excellent lyricist - you said "great" which I assume is different than excellent.

And no one has said a thing about "lyrical genius" whatever that may mean to you or whoever else.

I don't have the time to waste to dig it up - but you've thrown Face's name out there on more than one occasion when talking about lyrical rappers.

Everyone here has stated they think Ludacris is a lyrical rapper - probably a great to excellent one. Redman is too. If you can't see that it's just a difference of taste and nothing more.

Of course I have said Face is a lyricst I never said excellent though. And great or excellent whatever these are all adjectives for superiority. I know its a difference in taste but why not debate it? Haven't you whined about people just using one word post and not actually debating anything? Well here you go and now you want ot cut it short. Laaaaammme!

N3R0 wrote:

I've never said that, fool. I don't pretend that lyricism is the only thing that seperates mc's. And there have been multiple conversations about you thinking Face is a 'lyricist' by ANY definition and now you're calling Method Man and Redman "party mc's". Seems ridiculous by most people's standards. All I'm saying.

Yo momma bitch!

Anyway, Meth and Red are lyricists especially Meth but they are also known characters. I can see Meth being called a excellent lyricists but Redman I cannot. Face is more of a realer lyricists than Meth and Red i'll tell you that. Bet dem hoes luv that.

Red is the best lyricist out of the 3

Bottom line Kev, your boy Face knew what he was doing when he signed Luda.

I don't think Ludacris is a great lyricist, he's a good lyricist with a great flow/delivery to improve the impact of his lyrics, so that they may sound more impressive than they read on the page, or delivered by another rapper.

KJ Styles wrote:

Bottom line Kev, your boy Face knew what he was doing when he signed Luda.

Of course he did hell I would have signed Luda..lol.

And Jason you are dead on what i'm trying to convey.

Hey, KRob, aren't you a big TI fan? Maybe that's why you don't like Luda?

jk

KRob86 wrote:

Yo momma bitch!

LMAO...

redman>>>>>>face

Ive always been cool with Luda, no matter how underground ive decided to go...his punchlines/lyricism is rivaled by very few, if any, when it comes to a "Top 40 Billboard" artist.

Saw him live back in 2002(just a high school kid)-at the Anger Management Tour-Eminem,XZibit,Luda,D12,Xecutioners,Papa Roach....shit was banging...

KRob86 wrote:

N3R0 wrote:

You've got to be kidding about Busta Rhymes ("Call me athiest cuz I don't believe in you, God"), Redman ("Ridin water buffaloes to the source awards"), METHOD MAN, KEITH MURRAY???...

I don't get you Kev, you say Scarface is lyrical but these cats aren't?

And ya'll just hating on "What's Your Fantasy" cuz dude that produced is from IOWA. HATERS.

I did not say they were NOT lyrical Jeff....I just said their delivery and energy carries them more so than lyrics imo. I know Busta, Redman, and others are lyricists to a degree just not great or excellent lyricists.

How the hell is Busta not an excellent lyricist? That just sounds foolish to me. He's the best lyricist out of all the cats you mentioned.

My point Kev was not to stop the discussion, but it seems first you say he isn't a "great" lyricist" and we disagree... so then you bring up an "excellent" lyricist and then "lyrical god" trying to some how find a qualifier to make us agree.

Point is for many people describing a rapper as lyrical is in fact the same thing as saying they are a dope lyricist. It may not be the same for your, but for most it is. I say a rapper is lyrical I am defining him more by his lyrics than by anything else.

His album titles are getting to be fuckin stupid though...