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 When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?

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PostSubject: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Tue 23 Mar 2010, 12:52 am



6 minutes of Jay using essentially exact Biggie lines...this is obviosly common knowledge that Jay used Big's lyrics, but 6 minutes of full audio? and is there more? damn...when does the line have to be drawn?
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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Tue 23 Mar 2010, 1:00 am

Uh, he's also bit Ice T, UGK, Tupac, etc etc etc...
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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Tue 23 Mar 2010, 2:04 am

N3R0 wrote:
Uh, he's also bit Ice T, UGK, Tupac, etc etc etc...

i know, i know, i just saw this and i knew he bit a lot but seeing it all laid out like that was a different experience
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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Tue 23 Mar 2010, 10:11 am

I can't see the link so I can't comment but Jay does not bite in the sense of biting imo. We have debated this a trillion times no one's opininon is going to change.

Jay does not write is rhymes so he comes off the dome with a lot of lyrics. I use to rap also and I listen to a lot of rap. I'm sure cats classic lines would pop in my head from time to time also just to motivate the rest of the rhyme. I have heard plenty plenty of rappers use other rappers lines and hooks but they do not get jumped on lke Jay does.
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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Tue 23 Mar 2010, 11:27 am

KRob86 wrote:
I can't see the link so I can't comment but Jay does not bite in the sense of biting imo. We have debated this a trillion times no one's opininon is going to change.

Jay does not write is rhymes so he comes off the dome with a lot of lyrics. I use to rap also and I listen to a lot of rap. I'm sure cats classic lines would pop in my head from time to time also just to motivate the rest of the rhyme. I have heard plenty plenty of rappers use other rappers lines and hooks but they do not get jumped on lke Jay does.

So what the fuck do you consider biting, exactly?
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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Tue 23 Mar 2010, 12:41 pm

I consider biting when I take your rhymes, style, song, or whatever for my own and do not acknowledge it's origins.

When Jay uses a real popular Big rhyme he knows you know where it came from. Its not like he's trying to act like he came up with it or some shit.


Last edited by KRob86 on Tue 23 Mar 2010, 12:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Tue 23 Mar 2010, 12:43 pm

KRob86 wrote:
I consider biting when I take your rhymes, style, song, or whatever for my own and do not acknowledge it's origins.

When Jay uses a real popular Big rhyme he knows you know where it came from. Its notl ike he's trying to act like he came up with it or some shit.

basically this
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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Tue 23 Mar 2010, 12:54 pm

Jay's bitten a ton of rappers in his career. While it doesn't take away from his overall skill level, he does tend to overdo it at times and I wish he wouldn't.

I could see taking lines once in a great while, that's paying homage. but Jay does it constantly to the point where it comes off as biting, and then you wonder how dope a certain song would be if he hadn't taken certain lines.
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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Tue 23 Mar 2010, 2:21 pm

^ yea i think in this video he clearly has overdone it, and Kev its not like all these were popular Big rhymes
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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Tue 23 Mar 2010, 3:07 pm

Yeah i haven't seen the video yet, but Jay's legacy is so much more bigger than his "biting". Those lines he "took" or whatever did not make his songs good or great. Take them off and you still have a hit. Jay gets a pass from me because he does not write his rhymes on paper. Now if he sat down and wrote this shit I may could lean toward you guys arguement.
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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Tue 23 Mar 2010, 5:14 pm

I dunno man, songs like Dead Presidents, Rap Game Crack Game, Give It To Me, 99 Problems, and the like would definitely not have been as dope had he not taken those lines.
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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Tue 23 Mar 2010, 5:30 pm

So you are saying because he used the Nas sample in DP's he bit? Same with Rap Game Crack Game?
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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Tue 23 Mar 2010, 5:48 pm

Okay I got a chance to see the video and this cat is just a Jay hater str8 up and down. THe man is takin basic ass common rhymes and trying to make it look like Jay is on some biting shit. A lot of the times Jay are using them as hooks or bridges to songs.

Ever thought maybe the man is trying to rep for his lost homeboy?
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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Tue 23 Mar 2010, 7:01 pm

Ja Rule was trying to rep for Pac, too

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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Tue 23 Mar 2010, 8:10 pm

KRob86 wrote:
Okay I got a chance to see the video and this cat is just a Jay hater str8 up and down. THe man is takin basic ass common rhymes and trying to make it look like Jay is on some biting shit. A lot of the times Jay are using them as hooks or bridges to songs.

Ever thought maybe the man is trying to rep for his lost homeboy?

they may be common but its no coincidence when the same words/ideas are used in sequence that many times...its not like its one line, but most of them are like 2-4 lines at a time
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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Tue 23 Mar 2010, 8:11 pm

KRob86 wrote:
So you are saying because he used the Nas sample in DP's he bit? Same with Rap Game Crack Game?

Those are just examples, not to mention how many of Biggie's rhymes came off of his fat lips. LOL!
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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Tue 23 Mar 2010, 8:25 pm

So am suppose to worry about 1-2 lines that take up maybe 5-10 seconds of a whole 3:00-4:00 song? lol.

I am not saying you guys have no right to feel like this, but it does not bother me. Jay has millions of quotables that guess what?...He came up with.
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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Tue 23 Mar 2010, 8:31 pm

"At your wake as I peek in, look in your casket, feelin' sarcastic, look at him still sleepin'"

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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Tue 23 Mar 2010, 8:33 pm

KRob86 wrote:
So am suppose to worry about 1-2 lines that take up maybe 5-10 seconds of a whole 3:00-4:00 song? lol.

I am not saying you guys have no right to feel like this, but it does not bother me. Jay has millions of quotables that guess what?...He came up with.

The reason why it bothers me is because he's considered by many to be the GOAT, and I feel that how can he be the GOAT if he's constantly putting other MC's lines in his rhymes. He damn sure ain't as dope as Biggie given the amount of lines he's taken from him. I know you disagree with that, but that's just my opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Tue 23 Mar 2010, 8:34 pm

^ my thoughts
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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Tue 23 Mar 2010, 11:06 pm

I actually completely agree with KJ.
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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Wed 24 Mar 2010, 12:14 am

Just listened to it. They all up in Biggie's Kool-Aid. Can Mr. Wallace have his style back?

Almost everyone sounded like the pop version of something Big said.
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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Wed 24 Mar 2010, 7:20 pm

KRob86 wrote:
Those lines he "took" or whatever did not make his songs good or great. Take them off and you still have a hit.

KRob86 wrote:
A lot of the times Jay are using them as hooks or bridges to songs.

LOL...contradiction?
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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Thu 25 Mar 2010, 12:46 am

Alan wrote:
KRob86 wrote:
Those lines he "took" or whatever did not make his songs good or great. Take them off and you still have a hit.

KRob86 wrote:
A lot of the times Jay are using them as hooks or bridges to songs.

LOL...contradiction?

Not to me, I don't need hooks.

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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Thu 25 Mar 2010, 12:53 am

smh. Sampled vocals aren't biting

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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Thu 25 Mar 2010, 1:17 am

Sampled vocals used to be considered biting.
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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Thu 25 Mar 2010, 1:21 am

When was 'used to'?

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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Thu 25 Mar 2010, 1:23 am

80's.
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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Thu 25 Mar 2010, 1:56 am

Was NWA biting with the chorus to Gangsta Gangsta? That was in the '80s.

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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Thu 25 Mar 2010, 2:06 am

Late 80's...I assumed it was considered disrespectful...I could possibly be mistaken...
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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Thu 25 Mar 2010, 3:56 am

Jay has found a way to bite and pay homage at the same time. Nobody should be paying homage that much. Ive stated Moka Only was better than Jay and has a more brilliant legacy.
Moka in his twenty plus albums never bit a line
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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Thu 25 Mar 2010, 4:01 am

Moka sounds like Common way too damn much, but Moka is dope.
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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Thu 25 Mar 2010, 4:34 am

You know, I hear and read that Common comparison way too much. While I understand it, I simply don't hear it. Vocally, they're totally different. Their stylez are different. If anything, Common sounds like him because, when Common was actually trying, he sounded like no one else. Torch always been basic with the flow, so I'd say Common falling off has resulted in him sounding like Torch. Not the other way around. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but listen to Common on every album he has dropped. From Take it EZ and Soul By The Pound to The Light or even The Corner; they sound nothing alike...

I prefer Moka Only over Common and Jay-Z in their current forms, though.
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PostSubject: Re: When does the line between biting and "paying homage" have to be drawn?   Thu 25 Mar 2010, 5:29 am

You could say moka is a biter when it comes to his beats though. A lot of stuff he does sounds like J Dilla produced it to me. But i like Moka's imitation of dilla more than dilla himself so it's fine with me
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