Worst GOAT ever

Some morons consider Big L the GOAT, or Big Pun. Not many do and those people are delusional. BIG. Two albums. His first album is 4.5 AT BEST objectively, and he got way overhyped. He doesn't come anywhere NEAR a true GOAT candidate, a BDK, a KRS, a Rakim, a 2Pac, an LL Cool J, Ice Cube, Scarface, etc. How the hell does he always get put in there? He doesn't even measure up to his contemporaries like Nas and Jay-Z IMO.

cosign...

Big L's 1st album was one of the first albums I really could listen to and not skip anything. He's got great wordplay but I agree that his 1 1/2 albums is not enough to judge him. But I've heard a lot of his unreleased material, his "archives" and that Harlem Freestyle compilation and I have to say he was really great. Maybe not top 10 or 20 but I'd say definitely top 100 if not 50

Cosignage.

with Steve

If Snoop had died after he released "Doggstyle", he would be consider among the greatest...

wrote:

If Snoop had died after he released "Doggstyle", he would be consider among the greatest...

co-sign! that's the problem with people overhyping these MC's that died too early.

I cosign Steve 100%

Steve wrote:

Some morons consider Big L the GOAT, or Big Pun. Not many do and those people are delusional. BIG. Two albums. His first album is 4.5 AT BEST objectively, and he got way overhyped. He doesn't come anywhere NEAR a true GOAT candidate, a BDK, a KRS, a Rakim, a 2Pac, an LL Cool J, Ice Cube, Scarface, etc. How the hell does he always get put in there? He doesn't even measure up to his contemporaries like Nas and Jay-Z IMO.

I agree with this man

Big L was good but not that damn good...he had punchlines for days but I've said this before..in his own crew which is DITC he wasn't even the best battle emcee...Lord Finesse would've abused Big L in a battle and quite easily too...lol

Powell, You do realize he is talking about Biggie too right? Cause I know you love you some big poppa all in yours...

Southern Rap Pro wrote:

Powell, You do realize he is talking about Biggie too right? Cause I know you love you some big poppa all in yours...

Who from Tex-Ass was a better emcee than Biggie??

Who from your favorites is a better emcee than Biggie??

Seagram??

Mac Dre??

Scarface??

who ya got small fry??

He really was talking about Biggie, Powell.

"BIG. Two albums. His first album is 4.5 AT BEST objectively, and he got way overhyped. He doesn't come anywhere NEAR a true GOAT candidate, a BDK, a KRS, a Rakim, a 2Pac, an LL Cool J, Ice Cube, Scarface, etc. How the hell does he always get put in there? He doesn't even measure up to his contemporaries like Nas and Jay-Z IMO."

Big is not a bad choice for personal GOAT cause I have heard worst....If we are talking a concensus GOAT then I think Biggie is a suspect choice due to short career album wise.

Biggie is in my top three emcees of all-time because there isn't too many that have come out that have done it better than him IMO but he's not my personal GOAT

here's my top ten emcees of all-time for the hundredth time just for Steve and anyone else who cares...lol

In order:

1.Rakim
2.KRS-One
3.Biggie
4.Nas
5.LL Cool J
6.Big Daddy Kane
7.Jay-Z
8.Kool G Rap
9.Ice Cube
10.Chuck D

those are my elected presidents of hip-hop...nobody can fuck with those ten emcees IMO

this list has been pretty consistent for me for about 12 years and counting

what about big. hes the same as L IMO. 1 great album and one good album.anyone with pun, bigl or biggie as a goat needs to take their heads outta their asses

But Gza thats your and others opinion of how Big should be ranked. Why is "crazy" or "bad" when someone holds Big to a higher level than Pun or L. Objectively most know Big meant more to the hip hop and made the bigger impact. Yes Puffy and the Pac drama was apart of it but Big was the bigger part of it, I mean your proof is in the marketing job done with Pun who had almost just as much hype and public exposure but people still choose Big. Biggie was something special and never heard before and we clinged to it and he was taken in the middle of his prime so that made his legacy even bigger than Pun and L.

What the fuck ever! Biggie was the FASTEST RISING STAR in hip hop history and has influenced MANY since, including and ESPECIALLY Jay-Z, who's biting his lines on every other song he does!

Steve, you're just hatin on Biggie because you believe he set up Pac to get shot, which he didn't. If you're not a fan then it's whatever, but to say that he's not a GOAT candidate is completely ASININE! I consider "Ready To Die" and "Life After Death" classics. Biggie's flow, punchline delivery, lyricism, and ability to mix hardcore and commercial rhymes makes him a GOAT candidate. He's got all of the attributes that anyone would want in an MC.

As for him only having two albums, that's not his fault is it? He was assassinated, and that's unfortunate because I think he would have only blown up even further. I feel the same way about Big L and Big Pun. But Biggie was the man IMO. He was the leader in bringing the national attention BACK to the East Coast when the West Coast was dominating Hip Hop. Guys like Nas, Wu-Tang, and Jeru helped out in that effort as well, but those guys more or less SHARED the spotlight, whereas Biggie took it all to himself, as Ready To Die was an INSTANT success.

We've had this debate MANY times before so I'm not gonna go much further. I honestly don't see why someone couldn't see why Biggie wouldn't belong on someone's GOAT list though, that's just a completely BIASED statement as far as I'm concerned. Yes his career was short, but he was great while he was here, which is CLEARLY evident as people are STILL bumpin his music AND saying his lines AND sampling him to this very day. That's a STRONG testament on how great the man was.

I have question KJ.


April 19, 1994 saw the release of Illmatic by Nas - an album you have called the best album ever and an album that had ALL of hip-hop taking notice.

September 13, 1994 saw the release of Ready to Die - an album you claim brought hip-hop back to the East Coast.

I have to ask - Is your contention that the West Coast dominated the rap game for the 5 month period between those releases and Biggie brought it back? Or are you saying that the greatest album of all time was not good enough to bring hip-hop back to the east coast but Ready To Die was?

Southern Rap Pro wrote:

I have question KJ.


April 19, 1994 saw the release of Illmatic by Nas - an album you have called the best album ever and an album that had ALL of hip-hop taking notice.

September 13, 1994 saw the release of Ready to Die - an album you claim brought hip-hop back to the East Coast.

I have to ask - Is your contention that the West Coast dominated the rap game for the 5 month period between those releases and Biggie brought it back? Or are you saying that the greatest album of all time was not good enough to bring hip-hop back to the east coast but Ready To Die was?

Yes, Illmatic is IMO the greatest album of all time. HOWEVER, it did not have as much commercial success as Ready To Die had. That's why I made the above statement.

So Illmatic was a commercial failure, underground album and yet it is GOAT?

KRob86 wrote:

But Gza thats your and others opinion of how Big should be ranked. Why is "crazy" or "bad" when someone holds Big to a higher level than Pun or L. Objectively most know Big meant more to the hip hop and made the bigger impact. Yes Puffy and the Pac drama was apart of it but Big was the bigger part of it, I mean your proof is in the marketing job done with Pun who had almost just as much hype and public exposure but people still choose Big. Biggie was something special and never heard before and we clinged to it and he was taken in the middle of his prime so that made his legacy even bigger than Pun and L.

Kev, the problem is that Big only has 2 albums(although he should get credit for 3 since L.A.D. was two discs). How many times has an MC gone on to release a couple hot albums, and then release some garbage.? There is not enough of a sampling to determine if they are really the GOAT.. Did Biggie have a huge impact? Yes! Did Biggie have tons of talent? Yes! No one is trying to say Biggie is in the same boat as Big L and Big Pun as a rapper, but their scenarios are the same.

Southern Rap Pro wrote:

So Illmatic was a commercial failure, underground album and yet it is GOAT?

DID I EVER say that Illmatic was a commercial failure??? No I did not! I just said that it wasn't as successful as Ready To Die. It still went platinum, but RTD went multi-platinum. 36 Chambers wasn't as successful as RTD either, but I hold that album in the same regard as I do Illmatic and RTD.

KRob86 wrote:

But Gza thats your and others opinion of how Big should be ranked. Why is "crazy" or "bad" when someone holds Big to a higher level than Pun or L. Objectively most know Big meant more to the hip hop and made the bigger impact. Yes Puffy and the Pac drama was apart of it but Big was the bigger part of it, I mean your proof is in the marketing job done with Pun who had almost just as much hype and public exposure but people still choose Big. Biggie was something special and never heard before and we clinged to it and he was taken in the middle of his prime so that made his legacy even bigger than Pun and L.

its no different then what you said about L, i just have it the other way around which is not the popular opinion. if you can say it so can i.

T. Myers wrote:

KRob86 wrote:

But Gza thats your and others opinion of how Big should be ranked. Why is "crazy" or "bad" when someone holds Big to a higher level than Pun or L. Objectively most know Big meant more to the hip hop and made the bigger impact. Yes Puffy and the Pac drama was apart of it but Big was the bigger part of it, I mean your proof is in the marketing job done with Pun who had almost just as much hype and public exposure but people still choose Big. Biggie was something special and never heard before and we clinged to it and he was taken in the middle of his prime so that made his legacy even bigger than Pun and L.

Kev, the problem is that Big only has 2 albums(although he should get credit for 3 since L.A.D. was two discs). How many times has an MC gone on to release a couple hot albums, and then release some garbage.? There is not enough of a sampling to determine if they are really the GOAT.. Did Biggie have a huge impact? Yes! Did Biggie have tons of talent? Yes! No one is trying to say Biggie is in the same boat as Big L and Big Pun as a rapper, but their scenarios are the same.

yeah that was all i was trying to say. IMO all 3 had a lot of skill. i dont take into account mass appeal because that doesnt affect the music and how i hear it. i go by the music that i can hold and hear thats how i pick the goats because i care about music quality. i admit my statement was a little over the top but everyone hear does it.

The thing is, he died before he could make any sort of case. His influence is greatly overstated, I think, and all the rappers I listed have infinitely better discogs, much more longevity, and MUCH more impact on rappers and the game in general.

Steve wrote:

The thing is, he died before he could make any sort of case. His influence is greatly overstated, I think, and all the rappers I listed have infinitely better discogs, much more longevity, and MUCH more impact on rappers and the game in general.

i agree the rappers you listed are better. I feel for rappers to be on those lists they need 3 classic/great albums and a few good ones, maybe 1 bad one or 2 depending on how many they release. i feel a rapper cant prove himself in 2 albums and its not enough for top spots

Biggie's albums can EASILY match up with anyone's, and I feel that a lot of rappers benefitted from Biggie's death, because if he were still alive, the Lil Wayne's and Young Jeezy's of the world would be working at Mickey D's.

Jeezy and Wayne are better than biggie IMO...

Southern Rap Pro wrote:

Jeezy and Wayne are better than biggie IMO...

With idiotic statements like that, It's no wonder Powell shits on you the way he does, and I don't blame him!

Steve wrote:

Some morons consider Big L the GOAT, or Big Pun. Not many do and those people are delusional. BIG. Two albums. His first album is 4.5 AT BEST objectively, and he got way overhyped. He doesn't come anywhere NEAR a true GOAT candidate, a BDK, a KRS, a Rakim, a 2Pac, an LL Cool J, Ice Cube, Scarface, etc. How the hell does he always get put in there? He doesn't even measure up to his contemporaries like Nas and Jay-Z IMO.

I think people do that because he died. People buy into the hype of calling somebody the GOAT after they died because all of the music artist that ever died an unfortunate death have always been put on a pedistal. Determining who is the GOAT should be based on the artists catalog, and not when they died. Some really shitty artist dies, or almost dies, and everybody will say they are the GOAT.

Don't believe me, look what happened with Kayne. Nobody heard of dude until he ended up in that car accident. Now all of a sudden, eveerybody was all on his nuts.