Are lyics better now than they've ever been?

As far as lyrics, not content, are they far superior ? I speaking lyrics from real hip hop groups,not that radio shit

I would say yes. Powell would say no. Thread closed.

Lyrics as well as hip-hop in general is NOW waay better than that "old" school bullshit man

this is true school hip-hop man...not that outdated shit

2010 RULEZ...hip-hop is at an all-time high...gotta love that baby bubba!

Fuck no, not even close.

KJ Styles wrote:

Fuck no, not even close.

Huh? Explain.

I was just listening to HS's D.I.R.T and was mesmerized by the lyrics--far superior to HS's Nocturnal. Even though Nocturnal will always be considered a classic the lyrics were average for the time. Nowhere near the level of DIRT--here they mastered lyrics and flow.

Overall lyrics are better now than they ever was. An underground act with no prospects of breaking into the mainstream has no choice but to rhyme their ass off. Only thing lacking is voice appeal with these new cats.

I definitely do think an emcee today has to do much more to be considered lyrical than back in the day. The lyricism has evolved for one, the competition is greater, and I think a lot of lyrical rappers from back in the day are now really just average.

I say lyrics have continued to improve but there is also a much higher percentage of bullshit flooding the market and that's what seems to be popular now.

In the early to mid nineties the most popular albums like enter the 36 chambers, doggystyle and ready to die were also the best.

Dudes like K-Rino in the underground and Eminem in the mainstream are amazing lyrically. As far as the amount of quality hip hop being realeased the 90's kills todays scene but that's not the question

I would say lyricism has improved since the beginning of Hip-Hop overall. However commercially things have gotten lazy. I would say overall lyricism at its best was between the mid-90's and early 2000, then around mid-2000 they started getting lazier. People have become obsessed with making a club hit because they want the surefire downloads since folks are increasingly finicky about albums.

Lyricism has gotten a lot better. Back in the day when rap first began, the rhymes were elementary because hip hop was just cutting its teeth,and hadn't fully developed yet, Now, emcees have mastered the art of creating metaphors, punch lines, the beats have gotten more complex, and they ride the beat a lot better nowadays.
I'm not speaking about the radio rap at all. I feel like the radio stuff has no place in this conversation simply because it's made to suck ass.

I do agree with Hazardous on the time reference.

i mean just listen to "Bad Meets Evil" then listen to Em's new song....HAHAHA, comparing the lyricism is LAUGHABLE

same with Ghost, listen to Cobra Clutch or Impossible and compare that to his verses on Massacre (aside from Pimpin Chipp), no comparison

Hey look everybody, Steve's back!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Kid Joe wrote:

I'm not hateful or upset, hurt, whatever. That's called projection. I'm just pointing out the obvious. I'm only actually pointing it out to you, since anyone who's tried having a discussion with you is already aware.

You are way below average intelligence, my simple friend. That is why you lash out in anger and unfounded "facts" whenever you don't like somebody else's point of view.

It's called making fun of you Mighty Joe Young Parker Lewis Leonard....I ENJOY making fun of you...how you can "detect" anger over the internet is incredible man...almost as incredible as these lyricists of 2010....hey man please never again leave this forum...your just too easy ()...lol

Slang Editorial wrote:

i mean just listen to "Bad Meets Evil" then listen to Em's new song....HAHAHA, comparing the lyricism is LAUGHABLE

same with Ghost, listen to Cobra Clutch or Impossible and compare that to his verses on Massacre (aside from Pimpin Chipp), no comparison

Co-sign!! Listen to Box in Hand from the Ironman and listen to Ghost's new stuff. His older material was undoubtedly more lyrical.

But even Helta Skelta or Ghost in his prime aren't competing with the new guard lyricists. Apathy, Vakill, Access Immortal, Slaine, Oktober. These guys are performing on a whole new level. You might not like their music as much, but that's not what were talking about.

Remember, Canibus was doing that same type of shit awhile back Kid Joe. Also, I find it pretty hard to believe that Rock and Ruck would falter in a battle against those artists you mentioned.

Yeah, Canibus was one of the few ahead of his time. Also, I don't think you're looking at those matchups objectively. Nothing wrong with that. You like the emcees because you prefer what they do on the mic. I just don't see it being as complex.

It's hard to explain the differences I'm talking about without coming off as condescending. Try not to take it like that, its not my intention.

It's cool. I understand what you are saying in terms of complexity when rhyming. Heltah Skeltah doesn't really fall into that technical style of rap. It's like 2 totally different styles. Ruck and Rock always had the hardcore edge with the witted and wicked metaphors. The artists you mentioned usually are on that technical style of rhyming but works well for them.

Eastern Rap Porn wrote:

I definitely do think an emcee today has to do much more to be considered lyrical than back in the day. The lyricism has evolved for one, the competition is greater, and I think a lot of lyrical rappers from back in the day are now really just average.

When you consider that Rakim has been in the game for like 3 decades, of course he's not gonna sound as dope now as he did back then. However, he was ahead of his time and in his prime, NONE of these post-2000 cats could fuck with him, and even today he shows flashes of brillance.

Back then, you had guys like Public Enemy dominating the airwaves, nowadays it's Young Money. Hence, your statement is false.

That has nothing to do with his statement. And, you contradict yourself.

Kid Joe wrote:

That has nothing to do with his statement. And, you contradict yourself.

\

How did I do so Parker Lewis can lose?

Slang Editorial wrote:

i mean just listen to "Bad Meets Evil" then listen to Em's new song....HAHAHA, comparing the lyricism is LAUGHABLE

same with Ghost, listen to Cobra Clutch or Impossible and compare that to his verses on Massacre (aside from Pimpin Chipp), no comparison

PUUULLEEEEESE. What has up the ante nowadays is rappers spitting 7 min verses with no hook. Good examples of these long winded mind bogglers is:

Canibus's Poet Laureate trilogy
Megalon's Yahkoo, Art Of Flowing, Counting On You
Celph Title's 4 Course Meal
Holocaust's Crash

J. Harris wrote:

I still think Heltah Skeltah's Nocturnal is better with regards to delivery. Both MCs were raw (and still are). I think it's content more so than superior lyricism on D.I.R.T. Ruck and Rock were just able to concoct more subject matter for the new decade. What I don't understand is that how come Rock still doesn't have his real solo out yet? That cat is a lyrical monster. He can rhyme circles around your favorite rapper. The way he says shit is genius. As a matter of fact, he taught Sean Price how to Rhyme. Throw some Marco Polo, Pete Rock, Beatminerz, Black Milk, and Large Pro beats on a Rock album plus combined with the lyrics = CLASSIC!!!

Yeah Rock of HS reminds me of the spitters of Monsta Island Czars.

Dang! Trotter wrote:

Slang Editorial wrote:

i mean just listen to "Bad Meets Evil" then listen to Em's new song....HAHAHA, comparing the lyricism is LAUGHABLE

same with Ghost, listen to Cobra Clutch or Impossible and compare that to his verses on Massacre (aside from Pimpin Chipp), no comparison

PUUULLEEEEESE. What has up the ante nowadays is rappers spitting 7 min verses with no hook. Good examples of these long winded mind bogglers is:

Canibus's Poet Laureate trilogy
Megalon's Yahkoo, Art Of Flowing, Counting On You
Celph Title's 4 Course Meal
Holocaust's Crash

this doesn't mean that the actual lyrics are better...it just means that the dudes spitting didn't take a pause in between their verses...lol

Obviously, quality varies widely in regard to lyrics, so you can't just make a blanket statement about lyricism being better. When looking at the lyricism of those who are the cream of the crop of lyricists, I'd say Hip-Hop peaked in the the mid 90s, with Nas, Common, Pharoahe Monch, OutKast, Ras Kass, etc., who fully absorbed and improved upon the foundation established by Rakim, G Rap, etc. of incorporating a lot of poetic technique into Hip-Hop lyrics. Since then, I think quality has remained fairly consistent at the top, not much better or worse.

I think there have been shifts in style, especially with a lot of underground lyrics, where things turned more inward and more abstract, and there's been a focus more on poetic language than on poetic form. If you look at Rakim, he's kind of formalist in his approach, where you can pick up a pattern very easily, in terms of rhyme placement, syntax, etc., and you know it's gonna follow through the whole song (or whole album), whereas someone like Aesop Rock is gonna go through all these twists and turns. You can see the same difference from Rakim to Nas, where there's less focus on form, more on imagery, though not as extreme a difference. They're different styles, and it really comes down to preference.

And Powell's right, sheer volume is not necessarily an improvement.

Jason wrote:

Obviously, quality varies widely in regard to lyrics, so you can't just make a blanket statement about lyricism being better. When looking at the lyricism of those who are the cream of the crop of lyricists, I'd say Hip-Hop peaked in the the mid 90s, with Nas, Common, Pharoahe Monch, OutKast, Ras Kass, etc., who fully absorbed and improved upon the foundation established by Rakim, G Rap, etc. of incorporating a lot of poetic technique into Hip-Hop lyrics. Since then, I think quality has remained fairly consistent at the top, not much better or worse.

I think there have been shifts in style, especially with a lot of underground lyrics, where things turned more inward and more abstract, and there's been a focus more on poetic language than on poetic form. If you look at Rakim, he's kind of formalist in his approach, where you can pick up a pattern very easily, in terms of rhyme placement, syntax, etc., and you know it's gonna follow through the whole song (or whole album), whereas someone like Aesop Rock is gonna go through all these twists and turns. You can see the same difference from Rakim to Nas, where there's less focus on form, more on imagery, though not as extreme a difference. They're different styles, and it really comes down to preference.

And Powell's right, sheer volume is not necessarily an improvement.

I think a point you're missing here, isn't regards to form or technique but the lyrical devices mc's are using and the rates at which they're being used. Granted, polysyllabic rhyming has been around since the 80's and Im' not arguing that, but I believe the frequency you hear mc's use it has grown by leaps and bounds. Also, the use of similes in punchlines has become a much more clever affair, as opposed to "trying to find a rhyme" route so many used in the 80's and 90's. I think the only place we've lost points with lyrics is the more-as-less approach, with very few going the Scarface/Tupac route in this regard, except perhaps Slug.

Also, I think a LOT of what you're taling about here has to do with delivery and flow, which of course has a direct relationship with lyrics but isn't exactly dealing with the topic (unless you were just using that as an anology, then nevermind). I would argue that 10 years ago, you wouldn't have had 4 mc's the caliber of Joe Buddens, Crooked I, Joell Ortiz and Royce da 5'9" to form a group like Slaughterhouse.

"I would argue that 10 years ago, you wouldn't have had 4 mc's the caliber of Joe Buddens, Crooked I, Joell Ortiz and Royce da 5'9" to form a group like Slaughterhouse."


I've gotta disagree 100% with this statement Jeffrey

obviously it didn't happen but if Nas, Jay-Z, Big Pun, and Canibus formed a group 10 years ago it wouldn't be up to par LYRICALLY with Slaughterhouse??? do you really believe that man??

This whole thing with lyrics IMO is ridiculous.....there are only so many words in the english language to flip and some of the best "flippers" are from the past...IMO...and I think this is pretty apparent too...these newer dudes aren't "flipping" words like G Rap, Rakim, Cool J, Big Pun, Treach, Grand Puba, Sadat X and many many others...some of them aren't necessarily worse but they certainly aren't better than them either...come on man! lol

This whole thing about lyrics "improving" or getting better because of all these so called "techniques" sounds crazy to me...these emcees out today aren't even that different nor very original anymore...most of them sound the same..whether that be flow or voice or a combination of both of those....they have NO variety at all and most are quite boring IMO...

Before you could have a Slick Rick "flipping" words or a Kam or an Ice Cube and each emcee would stand alone or apart from the other guy and you still knew you where listening to QUALITY emceeing.......


poly-syllabic rhyming as you stated is nothing new and these new guys aren't doing it any better than those before them IMO....again there is only but some many ways to approach that form of emceeing and those styles have already been tried and perfected by the others before them...Eminem as an example is a great lyricist but IMO and a few others that I know he has not added on nearly as much as he is given credit for in terms of the multi-syllabic style of emceeing...he has just continued what he was already taught by those before him....and he has done a good job of handling it

In all those that you named, Treach and Canibus are really the only ones with the skills to compare with what we're discussing here. I mean to be fair, you really aren't up on today's hip hop to make any sort of generalizations.

Kid Joe wrote:

In all those that you named, Treach and Canibus are really the only ones with the skills to compare with what we're discussing here. I mean to be fair, you really aren't up on today's hip hop to make any sort of generalizations.

Actually I wasn't addressing you....but I'm quite up on todays emcees...maybe not the trash can dudes that you seem to fancy but I'm quite aware of them and to single out just Treach and Canibus as the only two who are capable to those skills be referred to sounds like more Parker bullshit to me...the others mentioned are quite skilled as well...maybe your not up on the past lyricists like you think you are...maybe thats the problem here ya think???

Nah. Like I've explained to you before, I've listened to all the music you think is the best. All of it. Plus hundreds of albums you've never heard.

Now here's a FACT, baby bubba: That does FACTUALLY make my OPINION more credible than yours.

LOL

I highly doubt that my dude...ya knowledge on this game is limited like the speed of traffic...you have no memory of many classic moments in hip-hop...no memory of many classic concerts in hip-hop history...

you just think no one has heard Slaine before (I'm just not that impressed like you) or J-Live (a middle of the road emcee..pretty good but eh overall)...but I've got your knowledge combined with my own...hey Parker call me "FATHER"....hey son how was your night under the stars with Reggie?? i hope you enjoyed yourself and have many memories of it to last a mudane lifetime...lol

J-Live middle of the road? Just keeping looking dumber and dumber, little buddy.

I think I see the key to your problems, though. You have absolutely no clue of what constitutes fact. Nobody ever bothered to teach you. Maybe your not retarded, but just the victim of a neglectful upbringing. That would explain the anger.

Call your mommy Powell. Tell her how she hurt you by not teaching you anything ever. Free yourself from the pain, mane! lol