Reasonable Doubt vs. The Blueprint

Which is superior?


VS

Reasnable Doubt, and its not even close

The Blueprint

I'll go witht The Blueprint barely. Both are highly overrated, though

I like Reasonable Doubt better, but both are classics.

The Blueprint easily. No skip trks unlike RD. Plus I found more substance on Blueprint than RD and I go for that anytime.

Both are classics but I go with Reasonable Doubt. It was less commercial and Jay dropped doper lyrics IMO.

I'm surprised that you like Blueprint better Kev, given the hardcore theme on many of RD's tracks as opposed to a number of pop tracks on BP.

The Blueprint wins. His best album.

KJ Styles wrote:

Both are classics but I go with Reasonable Doubt. It was less commercial and Jay dropped doper lyrics IMO.

I'm surprised that you like Blueprint better Kev, given the hardcore theme on many of RD's tracks as opposed to a number of pop tracks on BP.

Blueprint was not "pop" to me at all maybe mainstream. Blueprint to be was damn near a concept album the way he broke down stories and talked about being the ultimate hustler. RD has the most mainstream type trks between the two, remember Ain't No Ni--a, Politcs As Usual, and Can't Knock The Hustle?

I have to disagree Kev. Blueprint seems to have more of a mainstream tone with tracks like "IZZO", "Jigga That N***a", and "Hola Hovito". I would also throw in "Girls, Girls, Girls" as well. The production on RD outmatches Blueprint big time with more of a boom bap feel to accommodate that period in time. Ski Beatz laced Jay with some hard shit. Blueprint doesn't even hold a candle to that album IMO. Although he brought the lyrics on some tracks from Blueprint, RD was the better album.

The production on RD does not out match BP big time. Now I respect opinions but thats just bias bullshit. RD is the album that most try to hold Jay down too just like Nas with Illmatic. For some odd reason it seems people expected for him to repeat that same mood for that era in time. If you look at the time period BP "accommodates that period in time" just like RD did. Success is a bitch ain't it?

KRob86 wrote:

The production on RD does not out match BP big time. Now I respect opinions but thats just bias bullshit. RD is the album that most try to hold Jay down too just like Nas with Illmatic. For some odd reason it seems people expected for him to repeat that same mood for that era in time. If you look at the time period BP "accommodates that period in time" just like RD did. Success is a bitch ain't it?

How is that bias bullshit?? I just prefer Reasonable Doubt over The Blueprint because of the subject matter and lyricism. I feel both are classics though and the only two classics in Jay's catalog IMO.

Lol...I wasn't talking to you KJ. I was responding to Harris comment about the production on BP being so out matched.

Oh and Jay has 4 classic by my count.

KRob86 wrote:

Oh and Jay has 4 classic by my count.

I'm assuming you're saying Black Album and Vol 1 are classics. I can respect that opinion but songs like Change Clothes, Justify My Thug, and I Know What Girls Like prevent it from classic status IMO.

KRob86 wrote:

KJ Styles wrote:

Both are classics but I go with Reasonable Doubt. It was less commercial and Jay dropped doper lyrics IMO.

I'm surprised that you like Blueprint better Kev, given the hardcore theme on many of RD's tracks as opposed to a number of pop tracks on BP.

Blueprint was not "pop" to me at all maybe mainstream. Blueprint to be was damn near a concept album the way he broke down stories and talked about being the ultimate hustler. RD has the most mainstream type trks between the two, remember Ain't No Ni--a, Politcs As Usual, and Can't Knock The Hustle?

Politics as Usual isn't a commercial track, but Izzo, Jigga That N***a, and Hola Hovito (the worst song on either album IMO) are.

Hmmm Jay-Z classics??

Reasonable Doubt
In My Lifetime Vol 1
The Black Album
American Gangster
The Blueprint


I don't even really like The Blueprint like some others do but I do know it's a classic effort...

American Gangster is my PERSONAL pick...the production and lyrics on that joint were just extremely dope

And the other ones even with the flaws are classics to me (I Know What Girls Like, Sunshine and Change Clothes) there is just too many strong moments on those two to be any less than classic moments in his catalog IMO


I would say that Jay-Z is the most HATED emcee in hip-hop history..it's kinda like you either dig him a lot or you just can't stand his camel face...lol

he talks about a lot of real shit IMO....and his various uses of metaphors have been known to confuse more than a few if you aren't paying full attention...I know that Ghostface does the same thing in terms of his use of slang...you've got to pay full attention when those two dudes are emceeing but there's not many out there thats better than either one of them IMO

so I'm saying that Jay has 5 classics in his catalog (IN MY OPINION)

The Blueprint by a good margin. I know Reasonable Doubt has gained classic status over the years, but I think of it as kind of second level for a mid-90s NY Hip-Hop album, great but not top tier, while Blueprint made a huge impact and probably played the biggest part in defining Jay-Z's legacy of any of his albums.

Jason wrote:

The Blueprint by a good margin. I know Reasonable Doubt has gained classic status over the years, but I think of it as kind of second level for a mid-90s NY Hip-Hop album, great but not top tier, while Blueprint made a huge impact and probably played the biggest part in defining Jay-Z's legacy of any of his albums.

The Blueprint may have cemented Jay's legacy, but Reasonable Doubt made him a legend to begin with. RD is considered by many to be the best album of 1996 (and that's pretty high praise considering the great albums that were released that year) so I disagree with you here.

"RD is considered by many to be the best album of 1996 (and that's pretty high praise considering the great albums that were released that year) so I disagree with you here."

ATLiens. To everyone except Tran and That Juice.

lets see, albums i like better or as much from 1996

Ironman
ATLiens
Don Killuminati: the 7 day theory
Hell On Earth
Ridin Dirty
Dr. Octagonecologyst
Soul On Ice
Muddy Waters
Nocturnal

RD falls somewhere in there, but i would put at least 6-7 of those albums above over it, 1996 was a great year, theres still Illadelph Halflife, Stakes is High, The Score, The Resurrection, The Hall of Game, The Coming, It Was Written, Wrath of Math, Entroducing, Can You Feel Me, Bow Down, Firing Squad, At the Speed of Life, All Eyez on Me

RD is definitely not a clear consensus as best album of 1996, not even remotely close

Shaun wrote:

"RD is considered by many to be the best album of 1996 (and that's pretty high praise considering the great albums that were released that year) so I disagree with you here."

ATLiens. To everyone except Tran and That Juice.

I said considered by MANY, not all. I like ATLiens too, but I like Illadelph Halflife, RD, and IWW better personally.

Slang Editorial wrote:

lets see, albums i like better or as much from 1996

Ironman
ATLiens
Don Killuminati: the 7 day theory
Hell On Earth
Ridin Dirty
Dr. Octagonecologyst
Soul On Ice
Muddy Waters
Nocturnal

RD falls somewhere in there, but i would put at least 6-7 of those albums above over it, 1996 was a great year, theres still Illadelph Halflife, Stakes is High, The Score, The Resurrection, The Hall of Game, The Coming, It Was Written, Wrath of Math, Entroducing, Can You Feel Me, Bow Down, Firing Squad, At the Speed of Life, All Eyez on Me

RD is definitely not a clear consensus as best album of 1996, not even remotely close

I like RD better than all but maybe 2 of the albums you mentioned. And I never said anything about "clear consensus". I said considered by many. There's a difference. SMH @ not even remotely close. It's more criticially acclaimed than most of those albums.

I don't see how Reasonable Doubt could have made him a legend. I doubt that many people considered him a legend after it came out. I think it put him on the map as someone who would be an important artist, but it wasn't groundbreaking, it wasn't a watershed moment for Hip-Hop, and while it was well received, it seems like a lot of the critical attention built up later, once he started to have bigger and bigger hits. I know the Source didn't give it five mics until later, it got four on release, and that seems to be the general pattern. Many more people now probably consider it the best album of 1996 than when 1997 rolled around.

D.Powell wrote:

Hmmm Jay-Z classics??

Reasonable Doubt
In My Lifetime Vol 1
The Black Album
American Gangster
The Blueprint


I don't even really like The Blueprint like some others do but I do know it's a classic effort...

American Gangster is my PERSONAL pick...the production and lyrics on that joint were just extremely dope

And the other ones even with the flaws are classics to me (I Know What Girls Like, Sunshine and Change Clothes) there is just too many strong moments on those two to be any less than classic moments in his catalog IMO


I would say that Jay-Z is the most HATED emcee in hip-hop history..it's kinda like you either dig him a lot or you just can't stand his camel face...lol

he talks about a lot of real shit IMO....and his various uses of metaphors have been known to confuse more than a few if you aren't paying full attention...I know that Ghostface does the same thing in terms of his use of slang...you've got to pay full attention when those two dudes are emceeing but there's not many out there thats better than either one of them IMO

so I'm saying that Jay has 5 classics in his catalog (IN MY OPINION)

Those 5 Jay albums you mentioned are not only my top 5 favorite albums from him, but they are also classics IMO also. Most hated MC in hip hop history? Well, I'm not sure why that would be, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion on this one. He is my #2 behind Nas. I also agree that he talks about a lot of real topics.

Jason wrote:

I know the Source didn't give it five mics until later, it got four on release

You're right, and in this same issue (July 1996, w/ Nas on the cover), It Was Written was awarded the same rating.

"Most hated MC in hip hop history? Well, I'm not sure why that would be, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion on this one"

Powell is right, Wayne (actually, Weezy would probably be the most hated, but still). People who haven't heard all of Jay's work (and even some who have) see his newer ish as selling out, and that makes purists angry.

Shaun wrote:

"Most hated MC in hip hop history? Well, I'm not sure why that would be, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion on this one"

Powell is right, Wayne (actually, Weezy would probably be the most hated, but still). People who haven't heard all of Jay's work (and even some who have) see his newer ish as selling out, and that makes purists angry.

I'm a purist myself, but I wouldn't even begin to call him or his newest material "selling out".

Well, I mean people who only listen to old school and underground hip hop. You listen to a lot of mainstream emcees, so I wouldn't classify you in that group.

Shaun wrote:

"Most hated MC in hip hop history? Well, I'm not sure why that would be, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion on this one"

Powell is right, Wayne (actually, Weezy would probably be the most hated, but still). People who haven't heard all of Jay's work (and even some who have) see his newer ish as selling out, and that makes purists angry.

Exactly. Bring up Jay-Z, Eminem, 50 Cent, Lil Wayne, and even Nas to a degree and the pure hate just comes out the woodwork.

Alright, i've been trying to stay out of this cause there is no right or wrong answer. I can only speak for myself, but i can explain why i prefer The blueprint more.

1. I prefer the beats more. RD's beats are more traditional, and they haven't aged as well as other albums. For instance Illmatic's beats have aged a lot better IMO.

2. The Blueprint contains the perfect balance for everyone. There is plenty on here to satisfy the purists, and it's acceptable for radio play by the pop boppers.

3. Lastly and most importantly for me, Jay is at his absolute best here IMO. his flow, delivery, lyricism/word play are all top notch. Very rarely does an mc ever figure out who he is as an artist and is able to execute that as perfectly as Jay did here.

I'm only giving my opinion. I can't fault anyone for picking RD, but the choice was easy for me. I also disagree with whoever(KJ i believe) said Hola Hovito was the worst track on either album. I would give Ain't No N****. I also basically co-sign Jason on this thread.

I never liked Reasonable Doubt to begin with and I still don't...

Going with Blueprint. It's the one Jay album that is practically skip proof. Even the other so-called classics he have more skip material on them than the groupies would allow from other artists.

Just sayin'...

And I agree with Jason 100%.

Bushido Brown wrote:

I never liked Reasonable Doubt to begin with and I still don't...

Going with Blueprint. It's the one Jay album that is practically skip proof. Even the other so-called classics he have more skip material on them than the groupies would allow from other artists.

Just sayin'...

And I agree with Jason 100%.

What is it you don't like about Reasonable Doubt Bushido?

"What is it you don't like about Reasonable Doubt Bushido?"

I'm guessing that Ain't No Bunny and Coming Of Age will be mentioned in Norf's rebuttle.

I liked Dead Presidents (great beat). But there were several factors that kept me from diggin' it. Some of the production. Dudes frontin' jiggy (it was the begginning of said era). I remember being put off by the dude from Originators and Hawaiian Sophie sellin' out. Skills were dumbed down from day 1. That Fu Schnickens styled rapper vanished and all that was left behind were a bunch of empty, rented Cristal bottles and stereotypes. Only his grou...err...fans didn't notice.

I thought the overall approach was corny...and those weren't Ski's best beats.

This is all in my opinion of course...

Bushido Brown wrote:

I liked Dead Presidents (great beat). But there were several factors that kept me from diggin' it. Some of the production. Dudes frontin' jiggy (it was the begginning of said era). I remember being put off by the dude from Originators and Hawaiian Sophie sellin' out. Skills were dumbed down from day 1. That Fu Schnickens styled rapper vanished and all that was left behind were a bunch of empty, rented Cristal bottles and stereotypes. Only his grou...err...fans didn't notice.

I thought the overall approach was corny...and those weren't Ski's best beats.

This is all in my opinion of course...

Oh yeah, it's your opinion. I respect that, no doubt.

Yeah, Wayne...I know you do. You're a pretty good and polite dude.

But I have to put that disclaimer there for these ball bitin' dingbats that start crying on these threads when their idols get anything less than an A+...

Bushido Brown wrote:

Yeah, Wayne...I know you do. You're a pretty good and polite dude.

But I have to put that disclaimer there for these ball bitin' dingbats that start crying on these threads when their idols get anything less than an A+...

I hear that. I respect everyone's opinions man. I'm passionate when it comes to hip hop, but I've learned not to take things so seriously, and I'm not saying that people on this forum do, and if they do, they have their reasons.

Bushido Brown wrote:

Yeah, Wayne...I know you do. You're a pretty good and polite dude.

But I have to put that disclaimer there for these ball bitin' dingbats that start crying on these threads when their idols get anything less than an A+...

hahahahahaha

Bushido Brown wrote:

I liked Dead Presidents (great beat). But there were several factors that kept me from diggin' it. Some of the production. Dudes frontin' jiggy (it was the begginning of said era). I remember being put off by the dude from Originators and Hawaiian Sophie sellin' out. Skills were dumbed down from day 1. That Fu Schnickens styled rapper vanished and all that was left behind were a bunch of empty, rented Cristal bottles and stereotypes. Only his grou...err...fans didn't notice.

I thought the overall approach was corny...and those weren't Ski's best beats.

This is all in my opinion of course...

Now that makes no sense. Yeah he may not have been that great in the Hawaiian Sophie days, but hey, he re-invented himself on Reasonable Doubt.

What beats didn't you like as far as the production? The "Jiggy" era had more to do with Diddy and Bad Boy than it did with Jay. As far as the Cristal references and stereotypes, well Jay has ALWAYS been about those, and still is to this day.

I say SMH to that post. Not because you prefer The Blueprint, but because those are lame reasons not to like Reasonable Doubt.

Now, he did reinvent himself on Reasonable Doubt so I definitely cosign on that one.

Nor's a trip but anyway....

Calling Jay a sellout because he dropped that whack ass Fu style is crazy as hell imo. Jay refined his rap style to a more easy to follow style that works for him. Doesn't seem forced or sell outish and that works for me. Can ya'll imagine where he'll be with that Fu style...lol. I call it evolution...he had to get out the boat in order to walk on water...lol.

T. Myers wrote:

Alright, i've been trying to stay out of this cause there is no right or wrong answer. I can only speak for myself, but i can explain why i prefer The blueprint more.

1. I prefer the beats more. RD's beats are more traditional, and they haven't aged as well as other albums. For instance Illmatic's beats have aged a lot better IMO.

2. The Blueprint contains the perfect balance for everyone. There is plenty on here to satisfy the purists, and it's acceptable for radio play by the pop boppers.

3. Lastly and most importantly for me, Jay is at his absolute best here IMO. his flow, delivery, lyricism/word play are all top notch. Very rarely does an mc ever figure out who he is as an artist and is able to execute that as perfectly as Jay did here.

I'm only giving my opinion. I can't fault anyone for picking RD, but the choice was easy for me. I also disagree with whoever(KJ i believe) said Hola Hovito was the worst track on either album. I would give Ain't No N****. I also basically co-sign Jason on this thread.

The only one of those points that I agree with entirely is the second one.

I strongly disagree with you on the first one, because most of the beats on RD were samples (as were the Blueprint's beats) and those beats are still being used today so I don't see how they couldn't have aged well.

The third one is debatable as far as Jay being at his best. I thought all those factors you mentioned are also evident on RD, and I also think that Jay already knew who he was as an artist.

Nevertheless, both albums are classics and I don't fault you for preferring The Blueprint, but I prefer RD because it's less commercial and contains more pure lyricism IMO.

Last but not least. Ain't No N**** >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hola Hovito

You're only hatin on that song because it has Foxy Brown on it.

Fu-Schickens were ill. Don't hate cause Jay couldn't hang. lol

Alan wrote:

Fu-Schickens were ill. Don't hate cause Jay couldn't hang. lol

Well I agree that Fu-Schnickens were dope, but you don't like Jay at all so this thread's not for you.

KJ Styles wrote:

Alan wrote:

Fu-Schickens were ill. Don't hate cause Jay couldn't hang. lol

Well I agree that Fu-Schnickens were dope, but you don't like Jay at all so this thread's not for you.

Man, Fu-Schnickens are surely a footnote in hip hop history aren't they?

KJ Styles wrote:

Alan wrote:

Fu-Schickens were ill. Don't hate cause Jay couldn't hang. lol

Well I agree that Fu-Schnickens were dope, but you don't like Jay at all so this thread's not for you.

lol...So sorry for interrupting. Proceeeeed....