RIP George Steinbrenner

You either love him or hate him, but he was an unquestioned baseball legend. RIP to the "The Boss"

RIP. I hate the Yankees but always had respect for Steinbrenner. He wanted to win and didn't mind spending the money to make it happen.

While this news doesn't surprise me as he's been sick for quite some time, it's still sad nonetheless and I co-sign what Terry said. Steinbrenner was the smartest owner in team sports history. R.I.P. Boss.

E. Taylor wrote:

RIP. I hate the Yankees but always had respect for Steinbrenner. He wanted to win and didn't mind spending the money to make it happen.

That's a fairly odd statement. I mean, I'm not trying to start any drama. But, really, is that approach so respectable?

And, KJ, why do you think he was so smart? I don't see where his intelligence was ever the factor. Possibly he was crafty in acquiring his resources, but that doesn't equate to baseball smarts, exactly. Don't get offended, either. Just explain a bit. I'm not a devoted fan, so I'm just confessing my point of view, which was gained from a distance.

Honestly, my impression was that he was a ruthless prick who bought his way into sports history. Enlighten me.

He had the resources and he used them. I don't see a problem with it. There are many owners that have resources and don't use them because they're cheap. Take my team, the Braves. While their payroll is pretty high compared to others, they have the resources to do more. Ever since Ted Turner sold the team to Time Warner things have been different.

Like I said, I didn't have alot of love for the guy, but he was determined to win and that's more than alot of other owners can really say.

Kid Joe wrote:

E. Taylor wrote:

RIP. I hate the Yankees but always had respect for Steinbrenner. He wanted to win and didn't mind spending the money to make it happen.

And, KJ, why do you think he was so smart? I don't see where his intelligence was ever the factor. Possibly he was crafty in acquiring his resources, but that doesn't equate to baseball smarts, exactly. Don't get offended, either. Just explain a bit. I'm not a devoted fan, so I'm just confessing my point of view, which was gained from a distance.

Honestly, my impression was that he was a ruthless prick who bought his way into sports history. Enlighten me.

The Yankees didn't always have the highest payroll in baseball. In fact, that wasn't true until around 1998 or so. Previously, the Atlanta Braves owned by Ted Turner had the highest payroll. Yet they've only managed to win one World Series.

George was very intelligent. While his character has been highly questionable at times, his business savvy and love of the game of baseball could never be denied. He knew how to recruit the best minor leaguers and get them to come through the Yankees farm system. While he did buy many players, the majority of the all-time Yankee greats under his ownership started with the Yankees.

The revunue that the Yankess built up was because of merchandise and ticket sales, and it went through the roof when the Yankees were winning, after which he targeted the best free agents available and was able to sign them. That's what makes him so smart. He originally bought the team for only 8 million in 1973, and now it's worth over a billion dollars. The payroll is approximately 210 million, and in a sport without a salary cap, wouldn't you target the best free agents if you could? Of course.

All the above made "The Boss" a highly intelligent and successful team owner. Not to mention he also won the Stanley Cup as part owner of the New Jersey Devils. You clearly can't knock his hustle, and his legacy will live on through his sons Hal and Hank.

seriously KJ, you sound like a wikipedia researching publicist...

Southern Rap Pro wrote:

seriously KJ, you sound like a wikipedia researching publicist...

lmao

but Kid Joe all owners can do what Steinbrenner does but they choose not to. He was loyal to his fans and his team and showed it with his dedication to winning by doing everything in his power to do so.

I admire him for his dedication to winning and spending, but I don't necessarily see any inherent baseball savvy in his approach. Sure, it's not as easy as saying "I will buy the best and I will become the best" - but other than providing an unlimited cash flow, he did not do a lot I would consider as baseball savvy.

Teams today are worth a ton more than they were worth in the early 70s, that's just a testament to inflation and the growth of the sport.

As a owner you don't recruit players into the minors, you draft or trade for them and even then it is usually the GM who handles that.

Plus, the yankees have had far more hyped up busts than true home grown talent and as of lately (the last 15 years or so) all their talented players have been traded for or bought during free agency.

R.I.P. to THE BOSS...

A dude outta Cleveland no less who truly made it big in NYC...had plenty of HEART and plenty of BALLS....


Hey Lebron look and learn lil man!

R.I.P. Mr.Steinbrenner!

Southern Rap Pro wrote:

seriously KJ, you sound like a wikipedia researching publicist...

I've been a Yankee fan my entire life and always will be, so I know my shit, fool!

Fair enough. Like I said, my opinions were based mostly on critcism, which seemed to be most of his media coverage.

I definitely am aware of his micromanaging and treating GMs and coaches as disposable.

Southern Rap Pro wrote:

Plus, the yankees have had far more hyped up busts than true home grown talent and as of lately (the last 15 years or so) all their talented players have been traded for or bought during free agency.

Notable Yankees homegrown talent over the years......

Derek Jeter
Mariano Rivera
Bernie Williams
Andy Pettite
Joe Girardi
Jorge Posada
Robinson Cano
Phil Hughes
Hideki Matsui
Joba Chamberlain
Brett Gardner

There's more but I just wanted to highlight the biggest name players. Jeter and Rivera are two of the best of all time at their positions (Rivera being THE BEST closer of all time).

Not to mention that the Yankees currently have the 2nd most homegrown talent on it's roster, with only the Colorado Rockies having more

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

As for the "busts" that you mention, the majority of those guys were free agents and guys whom the Yankees aquired through trades, and not so much the homegrown talent.

Bottom line, you couldn't knock George's hustle. He settled for nothing less than being the very best, and not very many people could match his passion for the game.

Hideki? Do you know anything about Hideki and his career?

Southern Rap Pro wrote:

Hideki? Do you know anything about Hideki and his career?

He came from Japan, but until recently he spent his American playing career with the Yankees. I miss him big time.

And let me just break your inaccurate list down - I said 15 years and on - the following players were drafted by the yankees before 1995:

Derek Jeter
Mariano Rivera
Bernie Williams
Andy Pettite
Jorge Posada


Joe Girardi is not homegrown - he was a product of Chicago

Hideki Matsui was an ALL STAR PRO before he signed to the Yankees

So that leaves you:

Robinson Cano
Phil Hughes
Joba Chamberlain
Brett Gardner


And I am not trying to hate, but Cano is the only real star in that bunch.

Hughes and Chamberlain are decent pitchers with inflated stats due to playing for the yanks. Gardner is unproven.

Not trying to nitpick but I thought the Yanks picked Hideki up from Overseas.

Southern Rap Pro wrote:

And let me just break your inaccurate list down - I said 15 years and on - the following players were drafted by the yankees before 1995:
Derek Jeter
Mariano Rivera
Bernie Williams
Andy Pettite
Jorge Posada

Yeah ok so you got me on time, but WHO CARES? That's an impressive list of homegrown talent and all of them save for Pettite played their entire career with the Yankees.

Quote :

Joe Girardi is not homegrown - he was a product of Chicago.

You got me there, but he'll be most remembered for being a Yankee. Not only is he the current manager but he was on the team during their dynasty years.

Quote :

Hideki Matsui was an ALL STAR PRO before he signed to the Yankees

In Japan, not in the United States.

Quote :

So that leaves you:

Robinson Cano
Phil Hughes
Joba Chamberlain
Brett Gardner


And I am not trying to hate, but Cano is the only real star in that bunch.

Hughes and Chamberlain are decent pitchers with inflated stats due to playing for the yanks. Gardner is unproven.

Hughes has been PHENOMEONAL this year. Of all our current starters, only CC Sabathia has been more productive. Chamberlain has struggled at times, but he's still one hell of a talent with a bright future. Gardner is unproven but he's vastly improving more and more as time goes by. He's one of the fastest players in MLB and is very tough to get out.

And as I mentioned in my last post, the Yankees currently have the 2nd most homegrown talent in MLB so you cannot attribute ALL of their success to buying players. The Mets, Red Sox, and Dodgers have bought just as many players over the years and have payrolls almost as big but none of them have had the consistent success of the Bronx Bombers.

My point KJ, which you have yet to refute, is that since their 1995 class (which was drafted in 1990 mostly) the Yankees have lacked true star home grown talent and have bought all their stars.

You provided no evidence disputing that. I'm not trying to nit pick, but we are talking 15 years straight of it, which is significant IMO. Sure the Yankees may have a deep farm system now and they might debut an amazing class in the next few years, but they haven't. Maybe they trade away all their talent for stars, but that is still buying talent as opposed to growing it on their own.

Even if they have the 2nd most homegrown talent, you can't say they have created very many stars in the last 15 years.

KJ trying to claim Matsui is a homegrown Yankee is fucking stupid. Easily one of the stupidest things he said so far. They bought him, they outbid other teams for him, just like the Mariners outbid other teams for Ichiro. SMNUTS!

What does smnuts mean, exactly? Is it like that Luis Guzman game?

It's my version of smh.

Also, to add to my point, guys like Matsui were already accomplished stars in Japan when he came over here. These guys weren't young players trying to taste success for the first time in the big leagues. To say they were homegrown is fucking stupid.

Southern Rap Pro wrote:

My point KJ, which you have yet to refute, is that since their 1995 class (which was drafted in 1990 mostly) the Yankees have lacked true star home grown talent and have bought all their stars.

You provided no evidence disputing that. I'm not trying to nit pick, but we are talking 15 years straight of it, which is significant IMO. Sure the Yankees may have a deep farm system now and they might debut an amazing class in the next few years, but they haven't. Maybe they trade away all their talent for stars, but that is still buying talent as opposed to growing it on their own.

Even if they have the 2nd most homegrown talent, you can't say they have created very many stars in the last 15 years.

You may not think that you're nitpicking, but it seems that way and most Yankee detractors always use that point in an effort to diminish their accomplishments. They haven't lacked homegrown talent at all, it's just that Steinbrenner worked the system better than any owner in history.

Since he bought the team in 1973, The Yankees have won the most World Series championships (7) the most division titles (16) and have the highest winning percentage (.566) over that span. They didn't always have the highest payroll either. It's just that they've always been an attractive franchise that free agents wanted to come to, not just because of money but because of their dedication to winning. Nobody had the will and desire to win more than George, and he did so by demanding the best out of his players.

Payroll alone DOES NOT win championships. If that were the case then the Yankees would have won the World Series every year. But they've only won 2 championships this particular decade, one at the beginning, and one at the end. Not to mention that a number of teams among the lowest payrolls like the Arizona Diamondbacks, Anaheim Angels, and Florida Marlins won championships this decade, and the Tampa Bay Rays got to the World Series with one of the lowest payrolls in MLB history. Team chemistry wins championships more than anything else.

George Steinbrenner was an intelligent owner. Fred Wilpon of the New York Mets (who have the 3rd highest payroll in baseball), not so much. So you really can't BUY championships. You have to have players that are productive and work well together. Steinbrenner made sure his teams did so.

Victor Shade wrote:

KJ trying to claim Matsui is a homegrown Yankee is fucking stupid. Easily one of the stupidest things he said so far. They bought him, they outbid other teams for him, just like the Mariners outbid other teams for Ichiro. SMNUTS!

Notice that you only get passionate when it comes to Asian players.

I already mentioned above that up until this year, Matsui spent his AMERICAN playing career with the Yankees, that's why he's considered homegrown. Yes, he was a star in Japan but the Bronx Bombers made him a star in this country.

And that little symbol you throw up is really homo.

smh you would bring race into this. No, I get passionate when people say stupid shit like you just did and than go and try to back it up with even more stupid statements. He ain't homegrown, he wasn't drafted by the Yankees, and he came to the Yankees in his fucking PRIME. Fucking idiot.

So I guess guys like Sammy Sosa is homegrown to the Cubs? Even though he was drafted by the Rangers, developed him and than trade him to the White Sox. He gets to play for the Sox for two years, gains experience and becomes major league ready. He than gets traded to the Cubs and reaches his potential. So can you really consider Sosa homegrown? Hell no. He got seasoned by other teams, and finally got an opportunity to play full time with the Cubs.

KJ, my point is very clear and easy to see. Dating back to 1995 - the yankees have not developed home grown talent - your statement above does nothing to refute that. All they have done is increase their payroll and buy their team. I don't care about what happened before then.

You can't show me proof they have developed home grown talent. All they have done is spend spend spend... look at the stats and how much Luxury tax NY pays - they are the league leaders year after year.

Payroll alone does not win championships, but you give me an infinite budget and allow me to buy the best free agents every year and I would win a championship every now and then as well.

Don't sweat it Tran. KJ always brings race into shit and he refuses to admit when he is wrong. With Matsui he is flat out wrong. Matsui was a vet and star before he joined the yanks, nothing homegrown about him.

Homegrown talent means these players were cultivated in the Yankees system. Matsui earned his stripes in Japan.

And KJ, I had to become a Wiki researcher myself but here are the facts:

The poor showings in the 1980s and 1990s would soon change. Steinbrenner hired Howard Spira to uncover damaging information on Winfield and was subsequently suspended from day-to-day team operations by Commissioner Fay Vincent when the plot was revealed. This turn of events allowed management to implement a coherent acquisition/development program without owner interference. General Manager Gene Michael, along with manager Buck Showalter, shifted the club's emphasis from high-priced acquisitions to developing talent through the farm system. This new philosophy developed key players such as outfielder Bernie Williams, shortstop Derek Jeter, catcher Jorge Posada, and pitchers Andy Pettitte and Mariano Rivera.


Point blank, the yanks were able to develop a solid farm system for a few years when Steinbrenner was banned from the league and from those years is when we got the jeters and petittes and riveras... since Steinbrenner returned in 1995 it was buy buy buy all over again.

Once he ceded control to his sons there has been a little more effort put into the farm system.

RIP to Mr.S.

Don't expect to hear shit bout the Yankees though

Edited my Sammy Sosa post, hopefully that makes more sense.

I just watched Olberman's countdown. While there does seem to be some debate about his policies toward the game, I must admit that I was severely mistaken about his character.

As a person, it seems that he was extremley complex. After watching a few different interviews, I would say that he enriched the people's lives around him. A very interesting guy who really seemed a tortured soul. The consensus is that this is where his difficulties came from. A lot of frustration and dissatisfaction, even in the face of possibly the greatest sports legacy of American history.

Although I'm a Red Sox fan, much respect to Mr. Steinbrenner. RIP.

Victor Shade wrote:

It's my version of smh. <---------------------

Also, to add to my point, guys like Matsui were already accomplished stars in Japan when he came over here. These guys weren't young players trying to taste success for the first time in the big leagues. To say they were homegrown is fucking stupid.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Kid Joe wrote:

I just watched Olberman's countdown. While there does seem to be some debate about his policies toward the game, I must admit that I was severely mistaken about his character.

As a person, it seems that he was extremley complex. After watching a few different interviews, I would say that he enriched the people's lives around him. A very interesting guy who really seemed a tortured soul. The consensus is that this is where his difficulties came from. A lot of frustration and dissatisfaction, even in the face of possibly the greatest sports legacy of American history.

That's true, he did enrich the people's lives around him. While he definitely wasn't without flaws, he busted his ass to make sure he put the best team possible on the field and regardless about how someone may feel about him personally, everyone's gotta respect him for that.