Vakill vs. Lupe Fiasco

Alright, there is an obvious split on what people look for in an mc, and i think both of these mc's kinda represent the yin and the yang. Who ya got and why?

Vakill.. I favor his raw lyrical style more than lupe... lupe to me is just so so... he has some songs I love, but over an album I just don't see the talent.. maybe I miss all the nuances...

I'd say that Vakill has more raw lyrical talent than Lupe, but he's not as good because his songwriting is inconsistent, he has a tendency to just let his lyrics run wild. Some people look for the kind of thing Vakill does, and I think he's brilliant in spurts, but I'm more impressed when the whole fits together and really has movement/development. Vakill has shown some times when he seems to be moving toward that kind of thing, but he hasn't gotten there yet, he still leans too hard on the battle rap philosophy.

Good comparisions.

I'll take Lupe over Vakill by a good amount. Vakill is more of a str8 up and down methaphorical/punchline lyricists were Lupe is more of a deeper and conceptual type lyricists. I go for the latter more. Vakill imo so far has not shown me he can create good songs more so than dope lyrics.

You guys tend to pigeonhole these battle emcees, i feel, unfairly. Vakill has done some excellent storytelling, some social commentary...all the while employing those murderous skills.

And I know this thread is just about Va and Lupe, but I think the same prejudice gets used against a lot of battle rappers. Apathy is one that Jason has singled out, previously. He does some incredible thematic storytelling. Lyrically, Buck Stops Here is every bit as impressive and creative as Daydreamin'

I acknowledged that Vakill has shown a possbility of moving beyond that as his default style, but at this point I would still consider his default mode to be heavily battle influenced. Even in some of those songs where he attempts social commentary, he falls back on wordplay and punchlines more in line with battle tracks.

Most decent rappers have experimented with different styles, with varying success, but what you return to the most is going to be what you're recognized by, and those more conceptual instances still seem like departures for Apathy or Vakill, while that battle style is default.

Have you heard Wanna Snuggle?

I'm rollin with Lupe. Both are dope, but Lupe is a better song maker and has deeper subject matter than Vakill.

hmmm 2 Chi-town emcees...

I'll go with Vakill here....Lupe is good but highly overrated IMO....he is one of the best new emcees since 2000 but that just shows me how weak the new decade has been overall...he wouldn't even come close to showing up on lists for the 80's or 90's IMO

neither would Vakill but IMO he would have more of a chance to be on those lists than Lupe just based on his basic ability to spit and then spit some more....

gotta go with Vakill

D.Powell wrote:

hmmm 2 Chi-town emcees...

I'll go with Vakill here....Lupe is good but highly overrated IMO....he is one of the best new emcees since 2000 but that just shows me how weak the new decade has been overall...he wouldn't even come close to showing up on lists for the 80's or 90's IMO

neither would Vakill but IMO he would have more of a chance to be on those lists than Lupe just based on his basic ability to spit and then spit some more....

gotta go with Vakill

Exactly, all you hipster kids take notice...rap was about rapping first...

I'm rolling with Vakill on this one.

Vakill in a blowout...I don't even have to elaborate.

Lupe in a romp for listener. daydream, sunshine, hurt me soul, hip hop saved my life, superstar, he said she said, put me on game, paris, tokyo, all those songs are a big reason why I am a huge fan.

I find stuff like this so funny sometimes. I respect opinions obviously but sometimes there are reasons some people get heard more so than others. To me Vakill's production is lacking and his songs do not keep my attention. I honestly think it has more to do with the beats and hooks than his skills though. Lupe makes my style of music lyrically and he has the beats and dope hooks to make it a complete circle.

Victor Shade wrote:

Lupe in a romp for listener. daydream, sunshine, hurt me soul, hip hop saved my life, superstar, he said she said, put me on game, paris, tokyo, all those songs are a big reason why I am a huge fan.

I don't agree with Tran very often, but I do on this topic.

Vakill is a very good MC, but he doesn't rap about anything. Lupe's a thinking man's MC and says shit that makes me hit the playback button. That's why he wins for me.

In addition to the tracks Tran named. I'll add The Instrumental, The Cool, Little Weapon, Go Go Gadget Flow, and American Terrorist.

Exactly and Vakill has no songs even near the depth of those trks. And I do not listen to a lot Vakill so if I am mistaken please show me some examples.

I just have to disagree with anyone who says Vakill doesn't rap about anything or have the depth of Lupe.

Yes his style is derived from battle rapping and isn't presented in the most commercial or accessible manner, but you can't say the man doesn't rap about anything, doesn't have depth, or is not a thinking man's emcee.

Vakill is more of a thinking man's emcee because he doesn't try to spoon feed his message or dumb it down for mass consumption. That's like saying Immortal Technique isn't a thinking man's emcee because he doesn't gear his stuff towards the poppy, commercial sound.

I get why people like Lupe more - he's accessible and makes things sound good, but please don't overstate what he is. He's cliff notes and people like cliff notes, but the cliff notes are not better than the original novel.

I don't think Lupe is cliff notes at all. Dumb It Down is a song about how people want him to dumb down his cerebral style but he refuses.

I think those who dislike Lupe do so because he's not a hardcore MC and he's part of the hipster crowd with Kanye, but he's a superior MC to Mr. West. What makes Kanye dope is his production. I remember when Lupe made his debut guest appearance on Touch The Sky, he ripped that verse!!! At that moment, I knew that Lupe was destined for big things and although he's fallen on hard times lately, his career is far from over and I think he'll bounce back.

I like Vakill a lot, he's one of the best new MC's I've heard this decade but he's not the total package MC that Lupe Fiasco is IMO.

Not true SRP, imo nothing about Lupe is really dumbed down. Could it be he knows how or maybe more naturally reach more people. As usual should a rapper be faulted or down played because they have mass appeal? Because they have access to top notch producers? It takes more than a hot beat and hook to remain relevant in mainstream music. How many rappers have we heard over time with dumbed down lyrics, hot beats, and hot hooks but are gone and no one gives a shit. But Lupe is actaully connecting with people because of his LYRICS but we should say its dumbed down or "poppy" because he gets more shine than Vakill, Moka Only,Canibus, Gift Of Gab, etc etc. I smell biased bullshit.

Being more veiled in delivering your message wouldn't necessarily make you more of a thinking man's emcee, but I think Vakill and Lupe are doing different things in their social commentary. Vakill is more apt to report on the goings on of human nature than to explicitly comment on the mechanics of it. Following your novel metaphor, if Vakill is a novelist, Lupe isn't writing cliff notes, he's a philosopher. Basically, he's much more didactic than Vakill.

I agree with the didactic adjective, but I wouldn't call Lupe a philosopher, his direct approach to things is completely opposite of what I would expect. Maybe comparing Lupe to a self help writer would be a better.

A direct approach isn't counter to philosophical leanings.

Lupe for me. He is one of the few guys that can tell a story throughout an entire song, and still have dope lines in the process. It is not cliff notes at all. When he is at his best (Put You On Game, Fighters, Streets on Fire... as some examples just from the cool), every line is relevant to the song. Even when Vakill is on some dope political ish, he still will resort back to some liens about how dope his rapping is or something. Lupe doesn't. All his lines matter and that is why he is so great. Even on mixtape stuff (handcuffs is the best example, listen right now if you haven't) he still brings the storytelling to a new level.

Lupe wins.

Now my one issue is anyone saying anything about Lupe's mainstream success or mass appeal or staying power. He was one of the rappers who started the movement towards what we have today in the mainstream, RNB tinged "soft" hip-hop. He was part of that movement and had Jay-Z, Kanye, etc. co-signing him. He had Atlantic pushing him. Now, he's old news.

Now, he has albums get SHELVED. That's because his style isn't universal. That's because without big names pushing him and million dollar budgets, he can't make an album anyone wants to hear. If and when he drops, he won't sell any more than 50k first week, and that's being generous. Now sales don't determine an artist's quality, just dispelling the mass appeal things that have been said.

Now, I HIGHLY doubt the people trying to fault Vakill for just being a battle rapper have truly listened to Worst Fears Confirmed (or Darkest Cloud). And Kev faulting the production of Vakill is laughable, that is one of the strengths of the album. He does touch on deeper subjects, and tells stories much better than Lupe. Now, let's break it down.

Lyricism - Vakill
Story-telling - Vakill
Mass Appeal - Lupe?
Metaphors - Vakill
Production - Lupe has the big budget productions, but Vakill had better beats on WFC IMO.
Subject Matter - Lupe?
Accessibility - Lupe
Staying Power - Vakill

The question marks are because I don't necessarily agree, but could see the objective argument being made depending on listening style. I personally think every thing that counts, Vakill wins.

'' RNB tinged "soft" hip-hop ''

that's the exact way I've needed Lupe to be described. Everyone I know is always talking about Lupe this Lupe that, but I can't get past his production and that's what drives me away from this dude. He released a mixtape with people's beats and that I could listen to, but a straight hour or so of this soft hip hop I just can't do.

Where are these structured subject matter songs from Vakill...please point me in that direction.

Check out "Acts of Vengeance" Kev

bad quality but you can make out the lyrics just fine.

[flash(425,350)]https://www.youtube.com/v/bY4IPBkIjRY[/flash]

lmao. You say Lupe is a deep, conceptual lyricist, then ask that question? Either you like Lupe too much, or you haven't heard enough Vakill

Here is a reasonably well done break-down of a lupe song that honestly isn't even that good.
http://rapgenius.com/lyrics/Lupe-fiasco/The-coolest

Dude thinks out every line, a lot. Every line is relevant to the song. And his use of homophones to create dualities, irony or puns is ridiculous. He is a beast.

I know Vakill has depth and all that, but every line does not have the meaning that it does for Lupe. Lupe puts a lout into every line and going back to listen you get more from it. He doesn't use the basic similes that have plagued rap as of late and has the best dopest metaphors of anyone.
"Her eyes glow green with the logo of our dreams"
That is a dope line and it is something he just flies over cause it doesnt stand out cause the whole song is that good.

"I know Vakill has depth and all that, but every line does not have the meaning that it does for Lupe. Lupe puts a lout into every line and going back to listen you get more from it. He doesn't use the basic similes that have plagued rap as of late and has the best dopest metaphors of anyone. "

That's wrong, plain and simple. In a few of his songs? Definitely. Unless you're talking solely about The Coolest (one of my favorite Lupe songs, btw), then I have to disagree.

That breakdown is facetious, not to mention contradictory. First, he says Lupe is a devout Muslim, but ends it by saying he doesn't believe in God. WTF?

I was not saying vakill uses basic similies cause he does not. Also I feel like on about half of lupes songs, what I said is true. I know yo uget your superstar and go go gadget flow where its not there. But the coolest, hip-hop saved my life, streets on fire, little weapon, put you on game and more he brings it on every line.

Also the breakdown is not great, but it gives the overall point across. I do not think Lupe is trying to send the message god is not real, and also Lupe is not talking as himself I don't think, so the muslim line at the beginning is not right either. If he was trying to show off being a devote muslim, he would nto follow I love the lord with but I love me more.

" Also I feel like on about half of lupes songs, what I said is true. I know yo uget your superstar and go go gadget flow where its not there. But the coolest, hip-hop saved my life, streets on fire, little weapon, put you on game and more he brings it on every line."

Indeed. He can be good when he wants to be, but his 'deep' stuff seems shallow most of the time, IMO.

"and also Lupe is not talking as himself I don't think, so the muslim line at the beginning is not right either. If he was trying to show off being a devote muslim, he would nto follow I love the lord with but I love me more."

Indeed. The Coolest was a part two to The Cool from F&L, I believe

I liked The Coolest, it's wasn't as dope as the Cool but it was definitely a worthy sequel.

Shaun show me some songs dude instead of your usual "lmao".

And thanks for that song Steve I will listen to it.

That lupe song break down is the gayest thing ever. I mean if you guys like to read into lyrics shit that really isn't there, that's your own thing, but trying to give Lupe props for his fans obsessive nature is taking it to an entirely different level. His little play on words and metaphors are no more deeper than the next rapper.

When Was The Last Time
Serpant And The Rainbow
Farewell To The Game
Heart Bleeds
Acts Of Vengeance

All from WFC