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 The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...

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Highsmith
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PostSubject: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeMon 02 Aug 2010, 11:50 pm

really... it does... not a classic beat in any sense of the word... just a simple, apathetic sample looped... the lyrics save that track from the cutting room floor it belongs on...
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeMon 02 Aug 2010, 11:52 pm

I said the same about "It Was A Good Day"...just a 2 bar loop of an Isley Brothers song, any idiot with Audacity could slice that
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeMon 02 Aug 2010, 11:56 pm

The difference is that It's A Good Day actually has a melody to it. Life's a Bitch lacks anything on the beat you'd find in good music.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 1:23 am

"Life's a Bitch" is a masterpiece in subtlety and minimalism. Although I will admit that without Olu Dara's trumpet chimes at the end it would be vastly inferior.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 1:49 am

Going back to sleep :sleep:
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 1:51 am

Highsmith wrote:
Going back to sleep :sleep:

You must be bumping life's a bitch then.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 7:54 am

Southern Rap Pro wrote:
really... it does... not a classic beat in any sense of the word... just a simple, apathetic sample looped... the lyrics save that track from the cutting room floor it belongs on...

Shaking My Head
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Jason
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 8:56 am

I think it's the perfect sort of low-key, melancholy beat for the message the song delivers. If you don't like it though, you don't like. We can talk about simplicity, but then you throw 99% of Hip-Hop out the window with it.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 10:10 am

SRP just trying to get KJ hyped up...lol.

But Link I agree with Today Was A Good Day not being all that.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 11:17 am

Well, I only point out the simplicity to highlight the fact that if the sample doesn't move you, there isn't much else on there to fall back on. I can see the minimalist and low key arguments, but how much credit can be given? Usually I associate those with purposeful decisions, but with LES and Nas co-producing that, I wonder if that just happened to be as good as the two could do at the time.

I've bumped it in a car, on speakers, on headphones, and nothing ever popped in that song but the lyrics. Every other song on Illmatic has a dope beat for the most part, just this one that missed the mark IMO and pales in comparison the rest of the EP.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 2:18 pm

Illmatic isn't an EP
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 2:19 pm

Yes, it is. Ask Steve.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 2:25 pm

The line can be blurry, but at nearly 40 mins and 10 songs, Illmatic is not an EP by most standards
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 2:30 pm

genesis doesn't really count as a song IMO.. so it is only 9 songs... EP area for me.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 2:31 pm

"Genesis" is a song IMO, and common definitions would put an EP at around 20-25 minutes, with 4-6 songs.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 2:33 pm

genesis is an intro.. even the name implies such... and rap definitions means less than 10 songs for the most part.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 2:36 pm

Yes, an intro song. The terms aren't mutually exclusive. Genesis may have talking, but it also clearly has structured music, making it a song.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 2:37 pm

the fact it is less than two minutes long and is an intro.. makes it pretty clear its not a song.
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Jason
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 2:38 pm

Apparently it isn't so clear. I don't see how either of those features exclude it from being a song.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 2:41 pm

well, for me a song has a chorus, and more than one verse, and some sort of structure. Maybe you're talking just in general with all the weird music you listen to, then yes, any noise can be a song if you're stuck up enough.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 2:44 pm

It's not even some esoteric, "anything can be a song," issue. Is the issue that they're talking, rather than rapping? Because otherwise, we're not talking about random noises here, it's a looped musical sample, with a clear melody, and a drum beat.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 2:48 pm

for me on a rap album a song needs clear rapping and some structure. I will let certain songs slide with no hooks, choruses, breaks, etc. if it is a certain length or with a purpose. But something like genesis on a rappers album to me doesn't fit any definition of song. Maybe if it was on a madlib instros album or something like that it'd be a "song."
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 2:50 pm

Genesis is not a "song". Rap EPs can be 8 or 9 songs. Illmatic is EP length, though considered an album.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 2:51 pm

Southern Rap Pro wrote:
for me on a rap album a song needs clear rapping and some structure. I will let certain songs slide with no hooks, choruses, breaks, etc. if it is a certain length or with a purpose. But something like genesis on a rappers album to me doesn't fit any definition of song. Maybe if it was on a madlib instros album or something like that it'd be a "song."

You certainly have a lot of nit-picky personal definitions Big Grin

I can't tell you how to personally define things, but in general I think "The Genesis" falls under the category of song, and Illmatic falls even more definitively outside of the definition of an EP, seeing as it's not EP length, either in minutes or songs.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 2:55 pm

Jason wrote:
Southern Rap Pro wrote:
for me on a rap album a song needs clear rapping and some structure. I will let certain songs slide with no hooks, choruses, breaks, etc. if it is a certain length or with a purpose. But something like genesis on a rappers album to me doesn't fit any definition of song. Maybe if it was on a madlib instros album or something like that it'd be a "song."

You certainly have a lot of nit-picky personal definitions Big Grin

I can't tell you how to personally define things, but in general I think "The Genesis" falls under the category of song, and Illmatic falls even more definitively outside of the definition of an EP, seeing as it's not EP length, either in minutes or songs.

I'm positive you can fit Illmatic on one side of vinyl, which is the definition of EP if I'm not mistaken.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 2:56 pm

Would you consider "More Pigface Weapon Waist" an EP, Jason?
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 3:06 pm

Nemo Nobody wrote:
Jason wrote:
Southern Rap Pro wrote:
for me on a rap album a song needs clear rapping and some structure. I will let certain songs slide with no hooks, choruses, breaks, etc. if it is a certain length or with a purpose. But something like genesis on a rappers album to me doesn't fit any definition of song. Maybe if it was on a madlib instros album or something like that it'd be a "song."

You certainly have a lot of nit-picky personal definitions Big Grin

I can't tell you how to personally define things, but in general I think "The Genesis" falls under the category of song, and Illmatic falls even more definitively outside of the definition of an EP, seeing as it's not EP length, either in minutes or songs.

I'm positive you can fit Illmatic on one side of vinyl, which is the definition of EP if I'm not mistaken.

You could fit on one side of later vinyl, with increased length, but in terms of standard vinyl, especially when the terms EP, LP were first defined, no. With CD, lines got more blurry, like I said, but 40 minutes still seems pretty clear of EP length as usually considered.

Steve wrote:
Would you consider "More Pigface Weapon Waist" an EP, Jason?

I don't know how long it is.


Last edited by Jason on Tue 03 Aug 2010, 3:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 3:06 pm

34:12, nine tracks.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 3:09 pm

Then no, I wouldn't, though I wouldn't be surprised if it was marketed as an EP.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 3:13 pm

Jason wrote:
Nemo Nobody wrote:
Jason wrote:
Southern Rap Pro wrote:
for me on a rap album a song needs clear rapping and some structure. I will let certain songs slide with no hooks, choruses, breaks, etc. if it is a certain length or with a purpose. But something like genesis on a rappers album to me doesn't fit any definition of song. Maybe if it was on a madlib instros album or something like that it'd be a "song."

You certainly have a lot of nit-picky personal definitions Big Grin

I can't tell you how to personally define things, but in general I think "The Genesis" falls under the category of song, and Illmatic falls even more definitively outside of the definition of an EP, seeing as it's not EP length, either in minutes or songs.

I'm positive you can fit Illmatic on one side of vinyl, which is the definition of EP if I'm not mistaken.

You could fit on one side of later vinyl, with increased length, but in terms of standard vinyl, especially when the terms EP, LP were first defined, no. With CD, lines got more blurry, like I said, but 40 minutes still seems pretty clear of EP length as usually considered.

Steve wrote:
Would you consider "More Pigface Weapon Waist" an EP, Jason?

I don't know how long it is.

I'm sure that if Illmatic had been released in the 70's, they would have cut some shit on Genesis and Halftime to make it fit neatly on one side of vinyl. It's an EP.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 3:17 pm

Illmatic is a album easily but it could have been marketed as a EP if desired.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 3:24 pm

Nemo Nobody wrote:
Jason wrote:
Nemo Nobody wrote:
Jason wrote:
Southern Rap Pro wrote:
for me on a rap album a song needs clear rapping and some structure. I will let certain songs slide with no hooks, choruses, breaks, etc. if it is a certain length or with a purpose. But something like genesis on a rappers album to me doesn't fit any definition of song. Maybe if it was on a madlib instros album or something like that it'd be a "song."

You certainly have a lot of nit-picky personal definitions Big Grin

I can't tell you how to personally define things, but in general I think "The Genesis" falls under the category of song, and Illmatic falls even more definitively outside of the definition of an EP, seeing as it's not EP length, either in minutes or songs.

I'm positive you can fit Illmatic on one side of vinyl, which is the definition of EP if I'm not mistaken.

You could fit on one side of later vinyl, with increased length, but in terms of standard vinyl, especially when the terms EP, LP were first defined, no. With CD, lines got more blurry, like I said, but 40 minutes still seems pretty clear of EP length as usually considered.

Steve wrote:
Would you consider "More Pigface Weapon Waist" an EP, Jason?

I don't know how long it is.

I'm sure that if Illmatic had been released in the 70's, they would have cut some shit on Genesis and Halftime to make it fit neatly on one side of vinyl. It's an EP.

Now we're just gonna start cutting shit to make it an EP? If it was released in the 70s there would have been no question that it was an LP. This only becomes a debate with CDs being so long. Illmatic is longer than Imagine, What's Going On, This Year's Model, Ziggy Stardust, Maggot Brain, Never Mind the Bollocks, Harvest or any number of 70s LPs.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 3:27 pm

I highly doubt they'd press a double LP instead of cutting a couple minutes. Labels did that all the time (cutting time to make it fit). This conversation is ridiculous.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 3:30 pm

Sure, if you ignore the long list of 70s LPs that were shorter than Illmatic. Vinyl LPs generally had a length of less than 30 minutes per side back then, so you'd be cutting a quarter of the album to fit it on one side, or producing a non-standard LP, with lower sound quality for extended length per side. EPs back then would have generally been under 20 minutes, so there goes half the album.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 3:37 pm

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


Point taken. I guess I assumed the technology hasn't evolved as much as it did. Today, it's considered an EP. Even in the 90's, there were eps of similar lengths marketed as such.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 3:41 pm

By jason's defition, most, if not all rap EPs ever released were not EPs.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 3:48 pm

Jason wrote:
I think it's the perfect sort of low-key, melancholy beat for the message the song delivers. If you don't like it though, you don't like. We can talk about simplicity, but then you throw 99% of Hip-Hop out the window with it.

.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 3:56 pm

Southern Rap Pro wrote:
By jason's defition, most, if not all rap EPs ever released were not EPs.

All Souled Out, 100 Miles and Runnin, A2G, Villa Manifesto, Kill at Will, Let It Be Known, Varsity Blues, Emergency Rations

^All under 30 minutes, which falls in EP territory in the CD-era, even if they're a little longer than the 25 mins I said earlier, they're still not pushing 40 minutes.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 4:01 pm

well the true definition is usually 4 tracks and 20 minutes... so you're stretching the definition yourself with those.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 4:23 pm

I've said it becomes blurry with the CD-era, I just don't think it jumps to 40 minute and 10 tracks.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 4:24 pm

well then, basically your opinion is no more supported than mine... so I guess we can all choose what an EP is?
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 4:51 pm

Southern Rap Pro wrote:
well then, basically your opinion is no more supported than mine... so I guess we can all choose what an EP is?

I've said from the beginning that the CD-era added a gray area, but that Illmatic really doesn't fall in it, and it wasn't marketed as an EP, and I've backed up what I've said by looking back at how the definitions were established in the vinyl era, and how they've changed generally.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 4:56 pm

Eastern Rap Pro wrote:
Southern Rap Pro wrote:
So just because the song is sampled from a "classic" song makes it good? You did nothing to address the question. Keep your pointless hate out of my threads please KJ. If you would like to respond to the topic please feel free to do so.

YOU STARTED THIS THREAD BECAUSE OF POINTLESS HATE, YOU FUCKING HYPOCRITE!!!!

This is all part of your "I hate Illmatic" campaign. Nothing more, nothing less. Life's A Bitch is a classic song with a classic beat. If you don't like it then it's whatever, but just know that you're in the minority. This thread didn't need to be created. You don't have to preach every day of your life how much you hate Illmatic, nobody fucking cares.

Consider this your second warning. I do not have a I hate illmatic campaign. I was listening to a CD and this song/thread idea came to me. I've gotten some different opinions on the matter and some good civilized discussion out of it. You ignorantly claiming I hate nas and getting all worked up any time I drop my opinion of him or his work is worse than anything I've done KJ. Calm down. If you want to discuss civilly, do so, if you are incapable of doing so, refrain from posting in that topic or thread.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 4:58 pm

Jason wrote:
Southern Rap Pro wrote:
well then, basically your opinion is no more supported than mine... so I guess we can all choose what an EP is?

I've said from the beginning that the CD-era added a gray area, but that Illmatic really doesn't fall in it, and it wasn't marketed as an EP, and I've backed up what I've said by looking back at how the definitions were established in the vinyl era, and how they've changed generally.

I get your point, history and practice tend to point to Illmatic not being an EP and since it was not marketed as such it makes your point even stronger. Technically its closer to twice the length of the original EP and longer than some unquestionable LPs. I was just saying that in the rap environment, which I admit is one of bloated albums, it could be seen as somewhat short or lacking in material. Though the same could be said of most albums probably through the mid-1990s.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 5:12 pm

"As for what I typed, everything I said is the 100% truth"

Uh...
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 5:16 pm

SMH at my latest post getting deleted
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 5:17 pm

Southern Rap Pro wrote:
Jason wrote:
Southern Rap Pro wrote:
well then, basically your opinion is no more supported than mine... so I guess we can all choose what an EP is?

I've said from the beginning that the CD-era added a gray area, but that Illmatic really doesn't fall in it, and it wasn't marketed as an EP, and I've backed up what I've said by looking back at how the definitions were established in the vinyl era, and how they've changed generally.

I get your point, history and practice tend to point to Illmatic not being an EP and since it was not marketed as such it makes your point even stronger. Technically its closer to twice the length of the original EP and longer than some unquestionable LPs. I was just saying that in the rap environment, which I admit is one of bloated albums, it could be seen as somewhat short or lacking in material. Though the same could be said of most albums probably through the mid-1990s.

See, we can agree on all of this.
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PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 5:18 pm

Eastern Rap Pro wrote:
SMH at my latest post getting deleted

You were warned. If you want to contribute to the conversation positively feel free to and your posts will remain.
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The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Empty
PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 5:23 pm

Oh so you're allowed to make diss threads but if I disagree my post gets deleted?? That's BS.
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The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Empty
PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitimeTue 03 Aug 2010, 5:26 pm

If you can't understand that this is not a diss thread, but a discussion, then you really shouldn't be posting here anyways.
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The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Empty
PostSubject: Re: The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks...   The beat to Life's a Bitch sucks... Icon_minitime

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