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 One of the funniest things I have ever seen...BP3 > BP1 Powell???

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Which is better?
Blueprint 3
6%
 6% [ 1 ]
Blueprint 1
94%
 94% [ 15 ]
Total Votes : 16
 

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Jason
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PostSubject: Re: One of the funniest things I have ever seen...BP3 > BP1 Powell???   Fri 13 Aug 2010, 12:50 am

The simple fact is that only a limited number of people hear an album in its entirety before they buy it. You can't say that buying an album equals liking an album by any leap of logic, especially pre-Napster. It more equals liking the marketing, which is all someone in sales would care about, but that's not the same as liking the album.

When one sells 10,000 and the other 10,000,000, the margins are so greatly different that you can get away with the assumption that more people ended up liking the album they bought much more of. When one sells two mill and the other sells four mill, both unusually successful, not a comparison between a low selling and high selling product, then the assumption is much greater, and the leap from buying to liking comes much more into play. and it comes up wanting.
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PostSubject: Re: One of the funniest things I have ever seen...BP3 > BP1 Powell???   Fri 13 Aug 2010, 10:17 am

Steve wrote:
Jason, sarcasm aside, you're making no point.

Let's say I'm in sales, and I have two products. One is judged to be artistically superior, but the other sells 10 million times more. I go to my boss next time with the low selling product when there is no time to change it, instead of the more popular one. Am I fired or not?


Maybe in your world, more popular doesn't equal more liked. Or maybe only one percent of the three million buyers liked Lil' Wayne's album. Still more than if 100% like KP's latest album.


Which is why you're making no sense. "Durrr, maybe someone buys it but they don't like it! Maybe they REALLY like the thing they didn't buy."

Stop that.


Steve in the world of hip-hop and good or great quality hip-hop music...sales mean absolutely NOTHING my dude...I have seen you and Pedro use this "sales" argument before and those don't mean anything when it comes to talent and being an artist man...yes sales figures work in the real business world where making a profit is the reason we open the doors and of course to record labels they want to make money...this stuff is no brainers but for me at least when I'm judging music and artists that I'm really feeling then sales plays no part for me...either the shit is dope..middle ground or completely WACK...plain and simple....this is how real music heads should judge their music...not like the teens in high school who go and buy everything that their friends have bought just because they heard something was hot or was a must own...a bunch of music sales come from casual fans or teens and women and no disrespect but I'm not letting my wife tell me what hot and banging new hip-hop I should pick up because she just doesn't know....stop using sales in any music reference mane (mayne)...that shit is wack!
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PostSubject: Re: One of the funniest things I have ever seen...BP3 > BP1 Powell???   Fri 13 Aug 2010, 11:23 am

Everyone here is retarded:

Powell
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Learn to read people. Learn to read. ESPECIALLY POWELL. I NEVER SAID SALES MEAN A FUCKING THING ABOUT HOW GOOD AN ALBUM IS. ONLY HOW MANY PEOPLE LIKE IT. IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU PEOPLE?
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PostSubject: Re: One of the funniest things I have ever seen...BP3 > BP1 Powell???   Fri 13 Aug 2010, 11:44 am

then don't bring up SALES anywhere in your arguments ever again and it won't be thrown in your face...FUCK sales my dude....that shit means nothing to art dum-may!
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PostSubject: Re: One of the funniest things I have ever seen...BP3 > BP1 Powell???   Fri 13 Aug 2010, 11:46 am

and even as far as a barometer on how many people like it either....I bought Gift of Gab and that goes on his sales numbers...did I like it????

ask e-bay
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PostSubject: Re: One of the funniest things I have ever seen...BP3 > BP1 Powell???   Fri 13 Aug 2010, 11:46 am

eBay sales aren't included....in anything.
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PostSubject: Re: One of the funniest things I have ever seen...BP3 > BP1 Powell???   Fri 13 Aug 2010, 11:47 am

Sales is a valid barometer when there's a somewhat level playing field. He's not comparing Masta Killa's No Said Date to Eminem's Marshall Mathers LP, he's comparing two albums on the same fucking label with basically the same level of promotion. Sales work in that scenario. And Jason, seriously? Just because people haven't heard the whole fucking album doesn't mean that they don't favor it even though more bought it. Here's the truth, whether you like it or not, even if they're only buying the album for one song (unlikely, but possible) more people liked that song than liked the song they heard from the other person's album. You're bringing up a point while ignoring the obvious betrayal of your intended interpretation of said point.
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PostSubject: Re: One of the funniest things I have ever seen...BP3 > BP1 Powell???   Fri 13 Aug 2010, 11:50 am

umm Steve I gave the shit back my dude....I no longer own it...lol
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PostSubject: Re: One of the funniest things I have ever seen...BP3 > BP1 Powell???   Fri 13 Aug 2010, 11:53 am

"Sales is a valid barometer"


not when it comes to good/great hip-hop music Jeff...you again don't know what your talking about....unless your wife and kids tell you what's dope and what's hot....those are the main heads buying from the stores in droves my dude...and they don't normally know shit about what we would consider "real" hip-hop....keep using sales in your arguments..lol


what is the most units Haystak has ever moved man??? see what I mean
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PostSubject: Re: One of the funniest things I have ever seen...BP3 > BP1 Powell???   Fri 13 Aug 2010, 11:56 am

D.Powell wrote:
"Sales is a valid barometer"


not when it comes to good/great hip-hop music Jeff...you again don't know what your talking about....unless your wife and kids tell you what's dope and what's hot....those are the main heads buying from the stores in droves my dude...and they don't normally know shit about what we would consider "real" hip-hop....keep using sales in your arguments..lol


what is the most units Haystak has ever moved man??? see what I mean

Again, I agree with you, and very solid argument throwing Haystak in there (almost like you were admitting he's dope or something lol), but what Steve is simply saying that there ARE SOME people who DO prefer that Ma$e album, and I happen to be one of them. To say there is NOBODY is ridiculous, Steve is only saying that obviously, based on sales, there are plenty of people who'd agree. That's it. He never once said that "sales determine who's the best" he just said (and I'm agreeing) that sales can tell the tale of what some people prefer, obviously.
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PostSubject: Re: One of the funniest things I have ever seen...BP3 > BP1 Powell???   Fri 13 Aug 2010, 12:00 pm

I hear ya Jeff
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PostSubject: Re: One of the funniest things I have ever seen...BP3 > BP1 Powell???   Fri 13 Aug 2010, 12:04 pm

See how far we've come Powell? We can agree on stuff. Now I'll go listen to Criminal Minded and you go listen to some Sandman and we can be best buds.
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PostSubject: Re: One of the funniest things I have ever seen...BP3 > BP1 Powell???   Fri 13 Aug 2010, 12:09 pm

LOL
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PostSubject: Re: One of the funniest things I have ever seen...BP3 > BP1 Powell???   Fri 13 Aug 2010, 12:21 pm

The undeniable reality of the situation is that buying an album does not equal liking an album. That can't be argued against. Anything else can only be taken on assumption, and how workable that assumption is is obviously up for debate, and I've given my take on that, take it or leave it.

I get that some people would like some objective measure for how well liked an album is, but you just can't get from here to there in a concrete way, that doesn't rely on some form of assumption or subjective interpretation.


Last edited by Jason on Fri 13 Aug 2010, 12:26 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: One of the funniest things I have ever seen...BP3 > BP1 Powell???   Fri 13 Aug 2010, 12:23 pm

The BASIS for buying an album, unequivocally and without debate, is that some one LIKED SOMETHING ABOUT THE ALBUM. How do you miss that?
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PostSubject: Re: One of the funniest things I have ever seen...BP3 > BP1 Powell???   Fri 13 Aug 2010, 12:25 pm

Jeff wrote:
The BASIS for buying an album, unequivocally and without debate, is that some one LIKED SOMETHING ABOUT THE ALBUM. How do you miss that?

I didn't, but liking a song from an album, and whatever other aspects of its marketing, and liking the entire album are not the same thing.
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PostSubject: Re: One of the funniest things I have ever seen...BP3 > BP1 Powell???   Fri 13 Aug 2010, 12:28 pm

But that's CLEARLY not the point Steve was making, or the point I made. Read it again. I said more people liked something about album a) than album b) if it sold more. How are you debating that?
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PostSubject: Re: One of the funniest things I have ever seen...BP3 > BP1 Powell???   Fri 13 Aug 2010, 12:33 pm

Steve didn't make that distinction

Steve wrote:
I never said they determined how good an album was, did I? No. Learn to read (and then learn not to criticize people for calling an album top 5, rate it 3.5....then rate it top 5). I said it merely determined consensus as to how many people liked an album in comparison.

Not a song from an album and whatever element of its marketing, "an album."
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PostSubject: Re: One of the funniest things I have ever seen...BP3 > BP1 Powell???   Fri 13 Aug 2010, 12:35 pm

Jason stop. You lost. I am the only one arguing anything concrete here. I said if something sells 4 mil to 2 mil, it is more liked.


You said well maybe their daddy beat them with a Silver Jews tape so they didn't really like it! It doesn't matter maybe they only liked one word off of one song no daddy no!

So, stop it. I should probably just put you on ignore since you never have anything of value to contribute, you being the only poster here with that unique distinction.
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PostSubject: Re: One of the funniest things I have ever seen...BP3 > BP1 Powell???   Fri 13 Aug 2010, 12:39 pm

Unless reality and the movement of time no long matter, I'm the one who's presented something concrete, and you've presented something that relies on the assumption that a certain number of people who bought an album actually like it.

No attempt to ridicule can be substituted for logic.

If you want to talk about liking the single and the marketing, then sure, but that's an entirely new point.


Last edited by Jason on Fri 13 Aug 2010, 12:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: One of the funniest things I have ever seen...BP3 > BP1 Powell???   Fri 13 Aug 2010, 12:40 pm

Jason wrote:
Unless reality and the movement of time no long matter, I'm the one who's presented something concrete, and you've presented something that relies on the assumption that a certain number of people who bought an album actually like it.

No attempt to ridicule can be substituted for logic.

You seriously don't get how ridiculous you arguing against the assumption sounds?
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PostSubject: Re: One of the funniest things I have ever seen...BP3 > BP1 Powell???   Fri 13 Aug 2010, 12:41 pm

Hey, ignore works. Now all I see is one little line saying Jason posted, but don't have to read his nonsense. Excellent!
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PostSubject: Re: One of the funniest things I have ever seen...BP3 > BP1 Powell???   Fri 13 Aug 2010, 12:43 pm

Jeff wrote:
Jason wrote:
Unless reality and the movement of time no long matter, I'm the one who's presented something concrete, and you've presented something that relies on the assumption that a certain number of people who bought an album actually like it.

No attempt to ridicule can be substituted for logic.

You seriously don't get how ridiculous you arguing against the assumption sounds?

How much weight you give to that assumption is up to you, my main point was that there is not a 1 to 1 correlation between buying an album and liking an album.
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PostSubject: Re: One of the funniest things I have ever seen...BP3 > BP1 Powell???   Fri 13 Aug 2010, 12:47 pm

I didn't say 1 to 1, but we're not talking 1 to 1 numbers here, either. And, again, I would say the majority of people buying that album liked it, and there was a HUGE dropoff between the numbers in sales. The assumption was safe IMO, and I don't see how any logical thinking person could argue otherwise.
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PostSubject: Re: One of the funniest things I have ever seen...BP3 > BP1 Powell???   Fri 13 Aug 2010, 12:54 pm

I don't think it's a completely outrageous assumption, but the situation is too complex for such a simplistic statement to be assigned to it. There are too many factors that go into sales.
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PostSubject: Re: One of the funniest things I have ever seen...BP3 > BP1 Powell???   Fri 13 Aug 2010, 12:55 pm

Sales are only good to maybe deterime the revelance of an artists or album. For how good it is sales means nothing. How good a few singles and like Jason said the marketing machine was have at least 60-65% to do with sales.

Harlem World over any Biggie album sounds crazy to me. But hey we all have said some crazy opinions so whatever.
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PostSubject: Re: One of the funniest things I have ever seen...BP3 > BP1 Powell???   Fri 13 Aug 2010, 12:59 pm

And by relevance, you mean how much someone likes them in comparison? Or are we still using different words here? No one said anything about Harlem World over Biggie in terms of quality or otherwise (I think), and Biggie sold over 10 mil to Ma$e's 4, argument thoroughly supported there.
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PostSubject: Re: One of the funniest things I have ever seen...BP3 > BP1 Powell???   Fri 13 Aug 2010, 1:01 pm

Jason wrote:
I don't think it's a completely outrageous assumption, but the situation is too complex for such a simplistic statement to be assigned to it. There are too many factors that go into sales.

So you're saying two similar artists with similar fanbases on the SAME LABEL dropping albums in a short time span with similar chart success of their singles can't be judged on how many people bought their cd's? What other factor is at play here? They were marketed similarly...Please show me in this ONE example what I'm missing.

And that 10 million is really only 5...
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PostSubject: Re: One of the funniest things I have ever seen...BP3 > BP1 Powell???   Fri 13 Aug 2010, 1:05 pm

To be clear, the sales comparison I've been talking about is between I Am and Harlem World.
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