What seperates Old School from New School?

This is something that I've been thinking about lately. Where is the line drawn between old school and new school? I know this forum defines it as anything pre-2000, yet a few friends would define it as pre-2005 and even as recent as pre-2008. All of this seems to involve some sort of timeline. But does it go further then that? For example, back in 1986, when Criminal Minded and Paid In Full dropped, the game changed to a more straight-forward conversation-type rhyming, and at that point, everything pre-1986 was considered old school. The line there was drawn between styles. So is it a style thing rather then a set year? Another person would say that it is an major hip hop event that draws the line (such as the shooting of Pac & Biggie or the seperation of mainstreem and underground). I really think that it would take some type of change or event to seperate the old school from the new school rather then a random date.

What is your opinion on this?

I think anything a decade prior to the current can be considered ole school. But I can see an arguement being made that 15-20+ is true ole school. I think saying something 5yrs or less is ole school is just stupid.

Remember in that KRS One where he says there is no ole school because rap at the time wasn't even 10 yrs old or something like that? Well I agree.

The line goes: "...Rap on a whole, isn't even 20 years old. 50 years down the line you can start this, 'cause we'll be the old school artist...." But then, in later albums, he mentions that sugar hill, Bam and Grandmaster flash are 'Old School' and they weren't rockin' for 50 years. So that definition is still a little blurry.

I say 6 or 7 years or better.

At the same time, though, there's a difference between being washed up or played out and being old school...

Like, when I look at Ghostface or Big Boi, I don't see an old school artist. But when I see 50 Cent or Nelly, I see an old school artist. Can't really explain it, but that's how I view it.

I guess if you continue to put out quality music, you can increase your career life expectancy...

Good point. I also believe that you can be Old School and still be relevant.

I think, with 30 + years of music to consider, there are more time markers than "old" & "new".

Old school can be a feeling...J5 was always old school, by design.

"The Psycho-Social, Chemical, Biological And Electro-Magnetic Manipulation Of Human Consciousness (1998)" will never be old school to me.

15 ish years

This is an interesting topic. Do you consider something old school by rapper's rhyme schemes and the beats they use or just completely by age? Look how hip hop progressed from 84' to 94'. And look how hip hop showed no progression from 98-2008. I remember when RunDmc dropped Down With The King in 93-94 and there was a minor stink about them being too old to be relevant. RunDMC made their debut in 84' and by 94' they were considered washed up and should retire. Wow. Luda,Lil Wayne, Eminem, Jay-Z, 50 cent, pretty much the rulers of hip hop all been around longer than 10 years.

I think Run's problem was that they came in at a time when rap was dramatically different and represented a certain era and they were synonimous with that era and people weren't able to look at them from beyond that period. But LL Cool J and Kool Keith moved out of that period with ease. Maybe RunDmc fell stagnant cause they were the KINGS of rap at that time or it could be their new music wasn't that good. FatBoys,GrandMaster Flash and the Furious Five are other examples of group that couldn't transcend the boundaries of time. Rappers back then simply used different beats, rhyme schemes, deliveries and so forth.

I think hip hop acheived its pinnacle in 98'. At this point production was sounding crisp and multilayered. And rapper's lyrical abilities were staggering. Also rappers were rhyming to any sort of beat. Strange beats, or faced paced techno beats . I cant help but think of Pharoah Monch's NEXT SHIT and Noreaga's SuperThug as pillars for the final stage of hip hop's progression. . Hip hop is now on some other shit.

Good points Trotter. I agree with what you said about RunDmc and the others that seem to be pigeon holed with that era. Rundmc tried to change up their style during the Down With The King era but they are already cemented as pioneers and nothing else progressive.

And as it has been stated before I think hip hop underground wise has showed some progression and originality.

More people are turning to the underground because they are tired of hip pop.

Like Torae said; "The old shit is creeping back"

Trotter made a really good point about hip hop now being "on some other shit", but each decade turns out some "other shit". For example, Kid and Play were on some other shit back in the day , Pharell was, and The Roots are as well. I guess it's just the tide turning. Hopefully hip hop doesn't get drowned in the process.

As far as deeming an artist as "old school" I look at it like this. I've always seen old school artists as those whose sound still marks a certain period in hip hop. Too $hort and Ice T would fit the bill for old school rappers. I wouldn't put LL in that category because he has changed with the times.

But when it comes down to Old School Albums, I would put Jeru Da Damaja Wrath of the Math, Wu tang's debut solo and group albums, LL's first 4 records,Pharcyde in general, and De La Soul's old albums fit the bill. Their albums mark a specific sound for a specific time period.

Also I would set the time stamp as 15 years plus for the album to be deemed old school.

As hip-hop has gotten older I would say that the "old-school" label stretches back a little bit further now then it ever has before....to me anything that is 1991 and before could be considered "old-school" which is actually kinda funny because if you have some rock and roll from 1991 or some r&b from 1991 or some jazz or opera...none of that is "old-school" to those genre's.....r&b for example had Diana Ross and the Supremes putting in work in the 60's....Sam Cooke also an r&b singer was putting in work beginning in the 50's....The Rolling Stones for rock-n-roll started putting in work in the early 60's.....

so hip-hop in general is still a damn baby compared to these other genre's so even 1991 and before could be considered "old-school" (I guess)....there really is no "old-school" in hip-hop just older hip-hop releases...I mean if you were born in 1991 then your only 20 years old right now or going on 20 years old....is that "old-school"????

the entire term "old-school" is just a label thrown around in hip-hop that if you really think about doesn't really have any meaning IMO at least in reference to hip-hop....

Ole school equals more with the sound than the time passed I think. You can hear a difference in the emceeing and production in every decade since its inception.

TicNitty706 wrote:

Ole school equals more with the sound than the time passed I think. You can hear a difference in the emceeing and production in every decade since its inception.

that is true but when I hear the word "old" I automatically think of time passed because that is in essence what makes something "old"....hip-hop is a brand new culture overall as a whole...there is nothing "old" about it...even the pioneers like Kool Herc who started hip-hop music...that man is only 55 years old....lol which further supports my statement that there is no "old-school" in hip-hop music and culture


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DJ_Kool_Herc

I think the line between ol skool and new skool is pretty set in cement. It has to do with the production sound, delivery and rhyme structures.

Until a totally new sound or manner of delivery arrives on the scene we're still on the same plateau as '92. Now prior to '91 most rappers had a different delivery and there was a obvious difference in production.

The artists of the new millenium aren't doing anything different from the artists of '94. They may have a different swagger and be younger, but music wise, they haven't advanced the genre. Quite frankly I don't see how the genre can be advanced unless someone is going to come out rappin twice as fast as Twista. There's nothing else that can be done. Lyrical prowess has reached its pinnacle. In fact it has begun to take a step back.

In my perspective, the term "old school" can also mean a style. You can have old school beats, or an old school flow, style, dress, etc.. You know...kinda like "classic rock". You turn on the classic rock radio station and hear old music. But you'll also hear the new Journey, Styx, Lynyrd Skynyrd, etc...song when it drops. Then sometimes they mix in newer similar sounding music from newer artists because it fits in.