The Juice Crew vs. Wu-Tang Clan

So who ya got?

As a pure collection of talent, the Juice Crew. As a collective, Wu-Tang.

Jason wrote:

As a pure collection of talent, the Juice Crew. As a collective, Wu-Tang.

Yeah, The Wu shined as a group since there weren't any real Juice Crew collective albums. Some dope comps and cuts, but nothing like Wu.

I give it to The Juice Crew, personally. I wouldn't necessarily say they have "more" dope albums, but I would say I like the JC records more overall.

I was sad that the Juice Crew movie was canceled. I was looking forward to that.

This is hard but I think the Wu Tang may have impact on lock while Juice Crew has influence on lock. Talent wise it's damn even with the edge going to the Juice Crew for me.

Wu-Tang all day

RZA is times better than Marley and more innovative.

Wu-Tang rappers murder damn near every juice crew member also...

this is a no contest... it must be deaf old school crap boppers voting for the juice crew...

RoyceJustShootsNines wrote:

RZA is times better than Marley and more innovative.

Wu-Tang rappers murder damn near every juice crew member also...

What makes RZA "more" innovative? And I take it "damn near every juice crew member" excludes Kool G Rap & Big Daddy Kane?

Yep, G Rap and BDK is the only two that can even come near touching the wu - but when you weigh those TWO dope emcees against GFK, Rae, Gza, Deck, Rza, ODB, Method Man, Masta Killa? It's easily no contest...

You gotta be a deaf bat to not hear how RZA is innovate, where he gets his samples, how he changed what a hip-hop beat could be, he changed the game - Marley just good at what he does.

RoyceJustShootsNines wrote:

You gotta be a deaf bat to not hear how RZA is innovate, where he gets his samples, how he changed what a hip-hop beat could be, he changed the game - Marley just good at what he does.

Did I say I didn't think RZA was innovative? Read my post again.

Marl was a serious innovator as well.

Prove it...

Now maybe individually Juice Crew has more talent; they probably have the bigger names that's for sure. But Wu as a collective is way better.

OH NO SRP saw this topic and gave his idiotic synopsis....YIKES..

now he's showing that he's completely clueless about the Juice Crew too...lol

this is an extremely tight match-up...one that the Juice Crew wins in a squeaker

for production Marley is better than RZA IMO but they are both so good they cancel each other out

now on to the emcees

Big Daddy Kane and Kool G Rap are better than every single emcee in the Clan IMO and that includes GZA and Ghost...

Craig G could beat any emcee in the Wu in a battle....he could beat any emcee in the Juice Crew in a battle too but he would be given a run for his money from Kane

Method Man is better than MC Shan and Masta Ace IMO

and so is Ghost and GZA

Ol D.B. and Biz Markie cancel each other out with their respective silly antics

Raekwon is probably about even with Shan lyrically IMO..they both have had notable moments and at least one classic album

Deck is better than Shan lyrically but I think both of them always performed below their potential

Tragedy to me is better than Deck though

U-God is better than Shante...lol...I guess

overall The Juice Crew is just the more talented outfit....even a gorilla could hear that....lol...

Co-Sign Juice Crew winning but I don't think it's even close. How about this, I can understand what the funk every member of the juice crew is talking about AND with the exception of Raekwon I don't feel that any member of the the WU can adapt to any styled beat (west, south, midwest, but Rae has done two out of the three w/o a problem).

LMAO.. powell you really proved the idiot that you are...

Tragedy better than deck?

ha...

Marley better on production.. wow..

it's all good though Powell, you happy living in your delusional world so do you!

Nero... STFU...and let me tell you why... when has the juice crew shown they can adopt to any style beat? They've done the same style throughout their careers...so tell me please why that is somehow a knock against the WU but not the Juice Crew?

Tragedy is better than Deck IMO but I think that all top notch producers are hard to compare. Obviously Rza did more innovation then Marley Marl but I think Powell's point is that there would be no Rza without Marley Marl.


You're telling me Big Daddy Kane didn't make a west coast influenced album? You're telling me you haven't heard G Rap rip every style of beat imaginable? Craig G has reached out a lot, as well, listen to his more recent stuff it's got synth beats all over em. Masta Ace's style would fit perfectly with any style of beat IMO but he hasn't really spit on anything except east coast style beats...oh wait, then there's that album he did...Sittin On Chrome. Thanks for playing.

Yeah SRP I've got Marley Marl as the number one hip-hop producer of all-time but RZA is in the top ten as well which explains why they cancel each other out

Deck is good but so is Tragedy..umm SRP what Tragedy are you aware of???

what are you comparing that makes you think that Deck is so much better than him??

because if you really heard both emcees then you wouldn't be saying that...well I take that back you might still say it because your the hip-hop DEVIL...lol

it makes you feel redder and stronger the more chaos you can cause....lol

if you don't really know the Juice Crew (and I can tell by your comments that your only aware of the WU) then your vote here is miscast

you said this was no match....right there I know your clueless...your not aware but the devil growing inside you won't let you admit it as usual....lol

N3R0, IMO, there is a difference between not doing other sounds, and not being capable. GZA did an entire album with a west coast producer. Muggs built the album around GZA so there are definitely east coast influences, but you can definitely hear the west coast sound. Method Man can adapt to any beat. He was dope on All Eyez On Me(a Daz beat).

Lord Emperor N3R0N0N wrote:

Tragedy is better than Deck IMO but I think that all top notch producers are hard to compare. Obviously Rza did more innovation then Marley Marl but I think Powell's point is that there would be no Rza without Marley Marl.


You're telling me Big Daddy Kane didn't make a west coast influenced album? You're telling me you haven't heard G Rap rip every style of beat imaginable? Craig G has reached out a lot, as well, listen to his more recent stuff it's got synth beats all over em. Masta Ace's style would fit perfectly with any style of beat IMO but he hasn't really spit on anything except east coast style beats...oh wait, then there's that album he did...Sittin On Chrome. Thanks for playing.

Anyway, Powell is being ignored since his bitchass likes making false assumptions.

No way Tragedy is better than Deck. lyrically Deck takes him out - straight up. I've owned most Tragedy albums and sold them all because he is not that strong. He is nowhere near in the league of Cormega or AZ or other street oriented rappers. Lyrically Deck would tear him to shreds. As a soloist Deck has had weak albums, but he is a stronger lyricist.

And all those albums you mentioned were not west coast or anything else - Slaughterhouse, Sittin On Chrome both had east coast beats on them, he was just trying to mimic the hard core emcees on it.

And then you are going into theories? you think Ace would flow well over any production? Well he hasn't - Rza has provided and flowed over more varied production than anyone in the juice crew...

try again...

Damn you terry, I was saving those for if Nero decided to keep carrying that silly argument...smh.

I forget about Meth, yes, obviously meth and rae can rap over any style beat. My bad. And no, Sittin On Chrome definitely had west coast inlufenced production. AND you failed to mention anything refuting the fact that G Rap has probably spit over ever type of beat and ripped it every time, same goes for Kane.

I'll agree that Deck is probably a stronger lyricist, but overall I'd rather listen to Trag, and I do, actually. Everybody here knows I'm not a huge Wu head but Juice Crew is one of the few old school groups that have withstood the test of time. It's down to personal preference and I'm going with "The Symphony".

That's all it is personal preference - and that is fine. But G Rap and BDK have rarely spit over true west coast production... I'd call the bulk of their production east coast inspired...

Same with Sittin On Chrome - some wack east coast producers adding synths into his beats did not make that album west coast IMO...

RZA is great but he had a blueprint to follow when he started Marley really didn't he crafted timeless classics when there was not much "before". I also feel Trag could get Deck and Kane and G Rap kills all the Wu rappers prime compared to prime lyrically. But Wu smashes Juice Crew impact, originality, and consistant as a whole wise.

Brush up on your Tragedy SRP...I don't believe you owned even one of those albums

he is stronger lyrically and can carry an entire album unlike Deck

as for the comparisons to AZ and Cormega..I think he's better than 'Mega..but not AZ

Tragedy The Intelligent Hoodlum is no joke baby...he was like the unsung hero of the Juice Crew....with him in their line-up it's one of the major reasons why they are the GOATS of hip-hop collectives besides the fact that any emcees trying to match-up with Kane and G Rap is like mission impossible

Juice Crew is the best collection of talent to ever do it...if they would've made at least one hip-hop album as a whole forget about it...it's like the Dream Team in Barcelona....

Y'all are full of shiiiiit...

Did Marley Marl produce for Rakim? What about BDP albums did he do all the production there? You're telling me Marley Marl is responsible for Stetsa, De La, ATCQ?

Get your heads out of your asses with that... if Marley Marl had been aborted Rza would have found inspiration elsewhere...

UMM SRP Marley produced My Melody and Eric B. Is President

Rakim's first two joints

We all know that the Wu Tang Clan has the best album between the two collectives. Quite possibly there are three albums better than the Juice Crew's best. I mean people keep basing their opinions on hypothetical situations. We can only base our opinions on the music that was released. If you like the music released by the Juice Crew more, that's completely understandable.

U don't know Marley's career SRP, why even comment on it

I meant exclusively Powell - all those acts had plenty of hits and dope tracks without Marl...

and this whole "originator, inspiration" argument is a poor excuse for it since it is the music that needs to be compared and musically the wu murders juice crew in all aspects..

Lord Emperor N3R0N0N wrote:

Tragedy is better than Deck IMO

cosign

D.Powell wrote:

Method Man is better than MC Shan and Masta Ace IMO

You must be talking battle-wise, because Ace's discog is far better than Meth's....IMO.

Well, consistency is the most important thing when it cames to making records, but Meth is a better lyricist. He has a better flow. He the better delivery. He is probably a better battle MC too. I'm asuming this is why he thinks Meth is better.

I haven't once said anything about Marley being number one because he's a pioneer

I think Marley made the best beats IMO

RZA is dope but people talk about this guy like those Wu albums had the best beats of all time and Preemo IMO was dropping hotter tracks than RZA, so not sure what the fuss is about...

Pounds I think Meth is better lyrically than Masta Ace

D.Powell wrote:

Tragedy The Intelligent Hoodlum is no joke baby...he was like the unsung hero of the Juice Crew....with him in their line-up it's one of the major reasons why they are the GOATS of hip-hop collectives besides the fact that any emcees trying to match-up with Kane and G Rap is like mission impossible

Hell yeah. I don't see why Tragedy is so underrated. Dude has always brought the heat.

I've got Dr.Dre ranked ahead of RZA too

Pete Rock too...go listen to Pete's instrumental albums and then talk to me

let's not overrate Rakeem okay...he is top ten but he ain't number one IMO

T. Myers wrote:

We all know that the Wu Tang Clan has the best album between the two collectives. Quite possibly there are three albums better than the Juice Crew's best.

I'm not sure why you're saying "we all know that...". With two super groups like this, it's all opinion man.

So I take it you mean "36 Chambers", "Liquid Swords", and...Raekwon?

As far as classic producers, I got DJ Premier & Pete Rock ahead of RZA, personally. But they are all at the top with Marley IMO.

Minnesota Hip-Hop Fiend wrote:

T. Myers wrote:

We all know that the Wu Tang Clan has the best album between the two collectives. Quite possibly there are three albums better than the Juice Crew's best.

I'm not sure why you're saying "we all know that...". With two super groups like this, it's all opinion man.

So I take it you mean "36 Chambers", "Liquid Swords", and...Raekwon?

Well, if you don't know, now you know. LOL! Seriously though, I think the overwhelming majority thinks their debut is better than any Juice Crew record. OB4CL and Liquid Swords are the other two. For what it's worth though, I only thing their debut and Liquid Swords are better.

Minnesota Hip-Hop Fiend wrote:

As far as classic producers, I got DJ Premier & Pete Rock ahead of RZA, personally. But they are all at the top with Marley IMO.

You and Powell keep saying this. I can understand Premier even though i don't agree. Aside from personal preference, How is Pete Rock's resume better?

T. Myers wrote:

Minnesota Hip-Hop Fiend wrote:

T. Myers wrote:

We all know that the Wu Tang Clan has the best album between the two collectives. Quite possibly there are three albums better than the Juice Crew's best.

I'm not sure why you're saying "we all know that...". With two super groups like this, it's all opinion man.

So I take it you mean "36 Chambers", "Liquid Swords", and...Raekwon?

Well, if you don't know, now you know. LOL! Seriously though, I think the overwhelming majority thinks their debut is better than any Juice Crew record. OB4CL and Liquid Swords are the other two. For what it's worth though, I only thing their debut and Liquid Swords are better.

I figured it was those 3. I'd say "36 Chambers" is the tops, but then it's all about "It's a Big Daddy Thing". I can see some people putting some Kool G Rap over Wu's debut as well. Personally, I'd take quite a few Juice Crew albums over OB4CL.

T. Myers wrote:

Minnesota Hip-Hop Fiend wrote:

As far as classic producers, I got DJ Premier & Pete Rock ahead of RZA, personally. But they are all at the top with Marley IMO.

You and Powell keep saying this. I can understand Premier even though i don't agree. Aside from personal preference, How is Pete Rock's resume better?

Did I say Pete Rock was better? I said I like him more "personally". Quite a bit more in fact. But RZA was more influential IMO.

Terry I know RZA is your number one guy but I think Pete made better beats man

go listen on youtube for free to his instrumental albums...mind blowing is an understatement...dude was sick...and these were not even beats he used for any emcees...IMO he makes better, more melodic beats than RZA whom I love as well but Pete is stronger IMO and of course his teacher Marley is my number one guy of all-time

D.Powell wrote:

Terry I know RZA is your number one guy but I think Pete made better beats man

go listen on youtube for free to his instrumental albums...mind blowing is an understatement...dude was sick...and these were not even beats he used for any emcees...IMO he makes better, more melodic beats than RZA whom I love as well but Pete is stronger IMO and of course his teacher Marley is my number one guy of all-time

I'd have to agree. Pete Rock boasted new ideas and innovation with jazz samples in particular (but not limited to). As far as jazzy production goes, Pete Rock is second to none IMO.

Also, what the hell happened to the forum? Logo is gone? Everything looks different? Is it just me?

Some people were having trouble with the forum so the set up was changed.

T. Myers wrote:

Some people were having trouble with the forum so the set up was changed.

Gotcha. This is fine with me....just curious.

Uncontrolled Substance is a 4.75/5 album, most underrated wu album ever IMO

also, id like to add from the years '97-'99 i really dont think there was a rapper on the planet that could touch Deck.....just listen to Above the Clouds, Tres Leches, Forever, Rumble, Semi Automatic:Full Rap Metal Jacket

Deck is the reason your favorite underground rapper rap the way they do.

IMO Deck has had the BIGGEST and most underrated impact on underground rappers who base their whole style off of metaphors and just "ripping the mic"....no one can even deny this. Deck's style is like the fucking blueprint of underground rap that uses metaphors to spit hard rhymes....no one used metaphors the way Deck did and no one influenced underground rappers now than he did, whether they realize it or not....just take this for example:

Fake one, take one, no ultimatum face one
There's no escape from straight from the grain come the great one
My blade swung, decapitate your snake head
Slit your snake tongue make one false maneuver you a mystery
Unsolved, the mob that revolves automatically involved
musclebound sounds surround commercial thugs
Rock turtledove bowery suits
and purple gloves, me and you can have some fun
Make it a blast, you couldn't take the impact
with steel shoulderpads, blood for blood
Veteran, covered in mud, wounded in the midst of war
Still tradin slugs gettin major love
Way above you newcomers, I come thunderin
with the heat of two summers when I enter the zone
Move mountains with the presence alone before the words
rip through the microphone, chrome dipped lyrics
are known to split stone, you private eyes home in
but can't seem to clone


With all that said....Inspectah Deck is the SINGLE GREATEST GROUP RAPPER IN THE HISTORY OF RAP.

period.

There isnt a better MC who understands the role of ripping a verse on a group/posse cut more than Deck. He is usually the best or 2nd best on every group track hes on, he gives raw energy, and knows how to put all of the dopest thoughts into one verse. Deck is the quintessential example of what it means to truly be a "group" rapper, and thats not to say he cant hold donw a solo, because imo uncontronlled substance is 4.75, i dont skip any tracks on it, and the Movement is like a 4. He was by far the best mc on 36 Chambers and Forever regardless of what anyone says, Decks verses make Wu, Wu, and is the perfect person to have start off any song. FACT

I don't think you could have matched two crews up more evenly. This one is almost a complete push, but I give the nod to the Juice Crew. I give Marley Marl the edge over the RZA when it comes to production (although it's very close) and the Juice Crew's top 3 lyricists (Kane, G Rap, Craig G) are even with Wu's Big 3 (GZA, Ghost, Deck) but in a battle I think Juice Crew would prevail. With the exception of Biz Markie, every member of the Juice Crew knows how to battle. I like both groups evenly, but I think Juice Crew overall is slightly better.

And to Powell, Shante MURKS U-God!

KJ Styles wrote:

And to Powell, Shante MURKS U-God!

funk outta here

Slang Editorial wrote:

KJ Styles wrote:

And to Powell, Shante MURKS U-God!

funk outta here

She does, U-God is easily the worst MC in either crew. You could make a case for Cappadonna too though.

KJ, all femcee bias aside, that is an asinine, idiotic statement, it really is.