Classics & the coveted 5 star rating

To me, a classic is a 4 star album that I don't call classic and there are other albums in an artists discog I call classic and better.

Took something I said and made a thread out of it? I want royalties, dammit!

My feeling is that a 5 star album should have absolutely no "skip tracks", unless that phrase covers skits and interludes too. A few of those are acceptable, if they fit into the theme of the album. i.e. the skits on Deltron 3030. It might be possible for some to give an album 5 stars on the very first listen, but not for me. I'd have to give it more than one listen, with one of those devoted to trying to find flaws.

As far as "classic" goes...I think that involves being innovative, original, and able to withstand the test of time. I don't consider anything recent (within the last 5 years or so) to be a classic. Sure some albums have the potential to be, but it's too soon to really tell. I look at like NFL draft picks...some players might be looked at as a bust, but they might just take time to develop. Some albums might just need some time to grow on people.

I know everyone overuses the word classic, and I'm sure I'm guilty of it too. And when people say "personal classic", I just look at it as another way of saying "favorite".

But I do think this thread was a good idea. I'd like to see other people's perspective, and then maybe I'll understand how so many albums can be rated so highly.

5 stars: very limited skip trks, flow of the album perfect or near, rapper/beats in perfect harmony, and replay value. And I do not think an album should be rated 5 stars after the 1st listen.

Classic- Only time imo can tell true classic.

KRob86 wrote:

5 stars: very limited skip trks, flow of the album perfect or near, rapper/beats in perfect harmony, and replay value. And I do not think an album should be rated 5 stars after the 1st listen.

Classic- Only time imo can tell true classic.

Complete cosign here

I think an album can be 5 and still have a skip or two, depending on the overall experience. I would also say it's alright to give an album 5 on the first listen, if that's what you feel...it describes your opinion of what you just heard. The problem here is that some stubborn folk might not adjust their rating as time affects their opinion.

A 5 on first glance is no less speculative than a 4 or a 3.

I think some classics need time to mature, but occasionally there is an instant beast that can't be denied.

For example (this isn't just another plug...relevant to the discussion), I've spun Cape Verde about a hundred times since I first heard it. I have no problem calling this album classic. This will always be one of my favorite albums, I have no doubt.

The last time I felt this way was with Shapeshifters, and I stand by that one, too.

I think a lot of tensions arise on the subject when someone gets egocentric about it, and expects everyone else to hold their opinions. Or, they become insulting toward those who disagree (because they, themselves feel insulted that others don't share their opinions).

And, then there are those who feel that classic albums should be universally labeled as such...well, guess what? There are absolutely none of those. Not Illamtic, not Things Fall Apart, nothing. There is no true consensus classic.

That said, I do understand what the term means as it's used...and both of those albums certainly qualify. Some fools, however, love to throw the word "consensus" around to justify their opinions, or establish some ridiculous form of hierarchy.

There are plenty concensus classics. Which imo goes hand in hand with a majority.

Yes there are...there are also plenty of albums that aren't even close. But, I see a certain dummy calling everything he favors "consensus" just to gain some sort of higher ground...

Kid Joe wrote:

Yes there are...there are also plenty of albums that aren't even close. But, I see a certain dummy calling everything he favors "consensus" just to gain some sort of higher ground...

LOL I feel you. While I do not feel the man is a dummy he does throw that around a lot especially for east coast artist albums.

Frankly, I don't really understand the whole rating thing. I dunno, maybe its an american thing, like, even when I watch all these american sports, even futbol, you guys come up with some pretty fuckin amazing statistics, lol, an they always sponsored by bud lite or the marines. But anyway, back to the matter at hand. If you had to ask me what albums rank 4.5 or whatever I'd have no cooking clue. There's albums that I love, an listen to on a more regular basis, just as there's songs I love on an album I don't completely njoy, a so called 1.25 may have a so called five star song onnit. As for "classic", ya I suppose, but I dunno, I LIKE illmatic, or any one of the consensus classics, but classic? Personally, no... A classic to me is MY favourite shit. Just cos a whole bunch of other dudes mutually agree that something is the greatest ever, doesn't mean I must agree based on the idea that lots o other people do.

Dankie...

I feel you Sinj, we (Americans) do tend to over do it when it comes to always having to group things and put titles on everything and etc etc. It can really take the soul or true connection out the listening experience if you are just worried about how it rates or where it falls.

KRob86 wrote:

I feel you Sinj, we (Americans) do tend to over do it when it comes to always having to group things and put titles on everything and etc etc. It can really take the soul or true connection out the listening experience if you are just worried about how it rates or where it falls.

true words dog... Never really thought of it like that way but I completely agree actually.

I think the whole rating system brings more conflict than anything,

Crikey that's bad grammar up there, too lazy to fix it now on ma berry. This typing shit takes forever.

Sinj wrote:

KRob86 wrote:

I feel you Sinj, we (Americans) do tend to over do it when it comes to always having to group things and put titles on everything and etc etc. It can really take the soul or true connection out the listening experience if you are just worried about how it rates or where it falls.

true words dog... Never really thought of it like that way but I completely agree actually.

I think the whole rating system brings more conflict than anything,

Definitely. Especially when somebody rates something higher/lower in the past and then recently gives a different rating. People love to call out people on that on this site.

Half wrote:

Sinj wrote:

KRob86 wrote:

I feel you Sinj, we (Americans) do tend to over do it when it comes to always having to group things and put titles on everything and etc etc. It can really take the soul or true connection out the listening experience if you are just worried about how it rates or where it falls.

true words dog... Never really thought of it like that way but I completely agree actually.

I think the whole rating system brings more conflict than anything,

Definitely. Especially when somebody rates something higher/lower in the past and then recently gives a different rating. People love to call out people on that on this site.

Ja you see I dunno bout that though. Like I could see how when I fist listened to the sun rises in the east, I thought that shit was the bomb, but now, years later, I won't bump it as regularly. So I suppose my "rating" would over time change

Sinj wrote:

Half wrote:

Sinj wrote:

KRob86 wrote:

I feel you Sinj, we (Americans) do tend to over do it when it comes to always having to group things and put titles on everything and etc etc. It can really take the soul or true connection out the listening experience if you are just worried about how it rates or where it falls.

true words dog... Never really thought of it like that way but I completely agree actually.

I think the whole rating system brings more conflict than anything,

Definitely. Especially when somebody rates something higher/lower in the past and then recently gives a different rating. People love to call out people on that on this site.

Ja you see I dunno bout that though. Like I could see how when I fist listened to the sun rises in the east, I thought that shit was the bomb, but now, years later, I won't bump it as regularly. So I suppose my "rating" would over time change

Yeah exactly. That's why I don't understand the conflict.

to be a true classic there needs to be innovation. It has to do something original whether that is create a new formula or expand on an old formula in such a way that it sounds like it is on a completely elevated level.

The 5 star rating is rarely thrown out by me ever.

Personal classics are albums i like a lot, i do not equate the term personal classic with 5 stars.

Classics and Personal classics can have skip tracks

i believe there is an objective difference among "5 star" albums regardless if theyre both "rated 5 stars", theres just some albums that are superior from a musical standpoint than others, regardless of a personal opinion

no, its not possible to call an album classic on first listen, only time will telll

i also judge classics on highs and lows rather than the amount of skip tracks.

Slang Editorial wrote:

to be a true classic there needs to be innovation. It has to do something original whether that is create a new formula or expand on an old formula in such a way that it sounds like it is on a completely elevated level.

The 5 star rating is rarely thrown out by me ever.

Personal classics are albums i like a lot, i do not equate the term personal classic with 5 stars.

Classics and Personal classics can have skip tracks

i believe there is an objective difference among "5 star" albums regardless if theyre both "rated 5 stars", theres just some albums that are superior from a musical standpoint than others, regardless of a personal opinion

no, its not possible to call an album classic on first listen, only time will telll

i also judge classics on highs and lows rather than the amount of skip tracks.

Yeah the number of skip tracks isnt' too important unless its like a third of the tracks, then you have a problem

Half wrote:

Slang Editorial wrote:

to be a true classic there needs to be innovation. It has to do something original whether that is create a new formula or expand on an old formula in such a way that it sounds like it is on a completely elevated level.

The 5 star rating is rarely thrown out by me ever.

Personal classics are albums i like a lot, i do not equate the term personal classic with 5 stars.

Classics and Personal classics can have skip tracks

i believe there is an objective difference among "5 star" albums regardless if theyre both "rated 5 stars", theres just some albums that are superior from a musical standpoint than others, regardless of a personal opinion

no, its not possible to call an album classic on first listen, only time will telll

i also judge classics on highs and lows rather than the amount of skip tracks.

Yeah the number of skip tracks isnt' too important unless its like a third of the tracks, then you have a problem

Isn't 5-stars supposed to be the perfect rating though? Like I said, if skits count, those should be the only "skip tracks", as long as they still fit in the album. Otherwise, it can't be perfect.

An album can still be 5 stars with one skip track if it maintains it's replay value.

An album cannot be 5 stars with skip tracks, but it can be a personal and consensus, but not all-time classic.

I, personally, will not give a 5 star rating to an album wiffff a skip track (unless it's a skit, on rare occasions)

Shaun wrote:

I, personally, will not give a 5 star rating to an album wiffff a skip track (unless it's a skit, on rare occasions)

Same. I'd give Deltron 3030 the 5-star rating, but all the skits fit the story the album tells.

Same can be said with Prince Among Thieves.

A Prince Among Thieves is really really fucking terrible IMO.

No. You tell your Ed Love picture you love so much to get the fuck out of here. No one wants to see him puckering his lips for you anymore. The joke was stale after you did it twice. And Prince Among Thieves sucks IMO. Bet I'm not the only person to feel that way. Bet.

lol @ "bet"...I used to have a friend who said that shit a hundred times a day.

I agree that a real 5-star classic has no skip tracks. Playing from the beginning of Side A to end of Side B or from first track to last track. I think over the years, people have really gotten use to mediocre shit, so they are willing to give the nod to an album that may have two or three skip tracks, because the album itself has twenty-three tracks. I hate to sound like a mark for Nas, but the format, sequencing, and songs are perfect on Illmatic. An intro and nine songs, all produced by the premier (no pun) producers of the day, who all seem to be feeding off one another to produce the illest track on the album. Sans the Q-Tip hook on One Love, there was one guest appearance (AZ). I don't see the cohesiveness on albums today anymore, in this hot single one minute, forgotten about three months later, music industry.

Sometimes I wonder about hip-hop albums today. With thirty guest appearances and a different producer on every track of an album, who's really getting paid?

Jeff wrote:

No. You tell your Ed Love picture you love so much to get the fuck out of here. No one wants to see him puckering his lips for you anymore. The joke was stale after you did it twice. And Prince Among Thieves sucks IMO. Bet I'm not the only person to feel that way. Bet.

A Prince Among Thieves is an excellent album, easily one of the best concept albums of all time IMO.

Kid Joe wrote:

lol @ "bet"...I used to have a friend who said that shit a hundred times a day.

haha we used to always say "I'll bet you any money"

Jeff wrote:

A Prince Among Thieves is really really fucking terrible IMO.

I wasn't saying it was 5-stars, just using it as another example of when skits fit the story that the album is telling.

I do like Prince Among Thieves though, and would probably give it around a 4.5 (or closer to 4.25). But, that wasn't my point.

Kid Joe wrote:

I think some classics need time to mature, but occasionally there is an instant beast that can't be denied.

For example (this isn't just another plug...relevant to the discussion), I've spun Cape Verde about a hundred times since I first heard it. I have no problem calling this album classic. This will always be one of my favorite albums, I have no doubt.

The last time I felt this way was with Shapeshifters, and I stand by that one, too.

I think a lot of tensions arise on the subject when someone gets egocentric about it, and expects everyone else to hold their opinions. Or, they become insulting toward those who disagree (because they, themselves feel insulted that others don't share their opinions).

And, then there are those who feel that classic albums should be universally labeled as such...well, guess what? There are absolutely none of those. Not Illamtic, not Things Fall Apart, nothing. There is no true consensus classic.

That said, I do understand what the term means as it's used...and both of those albums certainly qualify. Some fools, however, love to throw the word "consensus" around to justify their opinions, or establish some ridiculous form of hierarchy.

Cape Verde is no doubt a beast.