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 Who Invented Gangster Rap?

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PostSubject: Who Invented Gangster Rap?   Tue 15 Dec 2009, 2:43 pm

State who you give credit to and why?

I ain't buying the just-ice story without FACTS.


I lean towards Melle Mel personally... to give birth to the roots... and schoolly d to really make it his own... and ice T for making it mainstream...
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PostSubject: Re: Who Invented Gangster Rap?   Tue 15 Dec 2009, 3:21 pm

I actually agree with you. Melle Mel (along with Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five) was the TRUE pioneer of gangsta rap.

The Message is my favorite song of all time. That song did for gangsta/reality rap what MLK did for Civil Rights.
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PostSubject: Re: Who Invented Gangster Rap?   Tue 15 Dec 2009, 3:26 pm

The Message is indeed a top ten GOAT single/song/etc.

And of course Flash and the Furious Five get credit as well, but I think Melle Mel was the main emcee putting it out there.
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PostSubject: Re: Who Invented Gangster Rap?   Tue 15 Dec 2009, 4:17 pm

I think Melle Mel set the standards or structure for gangsta rap talking about how hard it is in the streets. But the person to actually start talking about killing, dealing, pimping, etc etc it in 1st person view was Schooly D and Ice-T with honorable mention to Too Short and Just Ice.
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PostSubject: Re: Who Invented Gangster Rap?   Tue 15 Dec 2009, 6:51 pm

The Message is NOT gangsta rap and never has been considered as such...it was the first song though that had "political" over tones...kinda like Public Enemy before Public Enemy

as far as gangsta rap well that goes out to Schoolly D and Just-Ice as the actual pioneers...Ice-T did bring out more to the mainstream, but if you know your history on Ice-T he originally was a "friendly" rock styled emcee wearing metal chains hanging from his jeans and appearing in movies..like Breakin and Breakin 2...he was an actor...gangsta rap from him started appearing after Just-Ice and Schoolly D had already done it...he is credited for bringing it to the mainstream because he was a larger artist than both of them where at the time due to appearing in those movies...and also doing the Colors soundtrack...
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PostSubject: Re: Who Invented Gangster Rap?   Tue 15 Dec 2009, 9:15 pm

D.Powell wrote:
The Message is NOT gangsta rap and never has been considered as such...it was the first song though that had "political" over tones...kinda like Public Enemy before Public Enemy

The Message is REALITY rap, which in basically what gangsta rap is. The song is a vivid description of street life and most gangsta rappers cite that song as an influence on their style. It's clearly responsible for the expansion of reality/gangsta rap.
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PostSubject: Re: Who Invented Gangster Rap?   Tue 15 Dec 2009, 9:16 pm

I STARTED THIS GANGSTER SHIT, AND THIS IS THE MOTHAFUCKING THANKS I GET.
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PostSubject: Re: Who Invented Gangster Rap?   Tue 15 Dec 2009, 9:20 pm

KJ Styles wrote:
D.Powell wrote:
The Message is NOT gangsta rap and never has been considered as such...it was the first song though that had "political" over tones...kinda like Public Enemy before Public Enemy

The Message is REALITY rap, which in basically what gangsta rap is. The song is a vivid description of street life and most gangsta rappers cite that song as an influence on their style. It's clearly responsible for the expansion of reality/gangsta rap.

Gotta cosign KJ on this one... The Message is as real as it gets.
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PostSubject: Re: Who Invented Gangster Rap?   Tue 15 Dec 2009, 11:59 pm

Just-Ice was the first to do a whole album with straight gangster rap, but obviously without The Message there would be no Just-Ice.
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PostSubject: Re: Who Invented Gangster Rap?   Wed 16 Dec 2009, 12:40 am

Schooly D, Just, and Ice T all dropped their debut in 86 to my knowledge so who says who was first? Can't go by release date.
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PostSubject: Re: Who Invented Gangster Rap?   Wed 16 Dec 2009, 12:46 am

Powell is right...Schoolly D and Just-Ice. Ice T was indeed rockin' chains and spikes and rockin' out on some rock/Run DMC/Egyptian Lover hybrid type of bullshit at first. There are sound bites and footage out there if you look for it. He moved out west (he's from Jersey) and got caught up in the scene. Stop drinking the kool aid. He's about as gangsta (and western) as Tupac...and I don't mean that in a positive way. Or...is he a pimp? I'm confused...

There's absolutely nothing gangsta about "The Message"...

You guys are grabbing at straws with this gangsta/reality bullshit. The two aren't synonymous. The Fresh Prince was a "reality" rapper too...

Making something mainstream doesn't make you an originator. Word to Elvis. You're just showing someone else's creation to more people. Ask Chuck Berry...

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PostSubject: Re: Who Invented Gangster Rap?   Wed 16 Dec 2009, 12:56 am

pwned
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PostSubject: Re: Who Invented Gangster Rap?   Wed 16 Dec 2009, 12:58 am

The Just Ice shit is just NYC revisionist bullshit... It was Schoolly who made the first gangsta rap record.. Ice T who made it mainstream shortly there after... and I still consider Melle Mel a big influence on gansgta rap regardless of how we label it. Just-Ice came out with a hardcore record around the same time, but it wasn't gangster rap like Schoolly or Ice were making.
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PostSubject: Re: Who Invented Gangster Rap?   Wed 16 Dec 2009, 1:39 am

Bunny Man wrote:
The Just Ice shit is just NYC revisionist bullshit... It was Schoolly who made the first gangsta rap record.. Ice T who made it mainstream shortly there after... and I still consider Melle Mel a big influence on gansgta rap regardless of how we label it. Just-Ice came out with a hardcore record around the same time, but it wasn't gangster rap like Schoolly or Ice were making.

No, I agree with you, but the guys that were there before rappers were even making records point to him, so, I'm not so sure how revisionist it is. There were a lot of firsts that weren't officially recorded due to it just being some "in the park" type of shit, but chronologically speaking, the stories and the accounts from people that were there show all the arrows pointing back to him and Schoolly.

If I were just naming a name, I'd say Schoolly and only Schoolly...but I wasn't rappin' in the NY parks back in the 70's, I was begging for breast milk. So, I have to go with people that say they were there and saw it themselves...

Oh, and to Ice-T's credit, "Colors" did hit big in '88 (or was it '87?), so he did get an early start, but Schoolly recorded his self titled debut -- you know, the joint with the classic P.S.K. What Does It Mean?" (Park Side Killas) -- in '85 and released it in '86....thus predating anything gangsta that was released by Ice-Tracy.

Just-Ice also debuted in '86. The album, Back To The Old School" even contains a track called "Gangster of Hip Hop"...again predating Tracy...

Tracy would debut in '87 with Rhyme Pays (dope album, btw)...after ditching the s&m garments and picking up the hairspray.
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PostSubject: Re: Who Invented Gangster Rap?   Wed 16 Dec 2009, 1:45 am

Oh, definitely. Ice even acknowledges hearing PSK before dropping 6' N The Mornin' - though he claims he already had the song recorded by then... not too sure about that.

And I like you can't really say whether Just-Ice was doing it before he put it on wax. In fact I wouldn't rule out it developing separately at the same time as an option.

I point to Schoolly D as the first just because, like you said, he is the first to put it to record. That and Schoolly was always more focused on the gangster than Just-Ice was. Maybe it was the Mantronix influence, who knows.

Ice T is probably the first Game...if you really think about it... but being the first I'll give him a pass...
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PostSubject: Re: Who Invented Gangster Rap?   Wed 16 Dec 2009, 11:18 am

We can't count out Too Short either as far as one of the orignators of the harder subject matter in rhymes. To my knowledge they say he was dropping undaground pimp/street shit since 1983 in Oakland. Of course NY was the first to get major record deals/label attention so it may seem someone from that area was first. I think Short never gets mentioned because he doesn't really push the gangsta image like the others.

I also think Schooly D if we had to chose one would be the one who deserves the most credit though. But Ice-T deserves it for bringing it to the mainstream.
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PostSubject: Re: Who Invented Gangster Rap?   Wed 16 Dec 2009, 12:22 pm

Bunny Man wrote:
The Just Ice shit is just NYC revisionist bullshit... It was Schoolly who made the first gangsta rap record.. Ice T who made it mainstream shortly there after... and I still consider Melle Mel a big influence on gansgta rap regardless of how we label it. Just-Ice came out with a hardcore record around the same time, but it wasn't gangster rap like Schoolly or Ice were making.