So how many records are these underground cats selling?

Does anybody know any database to find out?

La Costra Nostra, Masters Of The Black Arts sold less 5,000

Murs & Fashawn sold like 2,700

Brother Ali did good with 14,000

Aesop Rock-14,000 first then drops from there

Couldn't find any info on Chino XL

Now when we compare this to mainstream cats its no contest.

Lupe, F&L 2 like 90,000 in its first week

Nas's LIG up to 300,000

Rick Ross's GFID up to 400,000

2Chainz-300,000

B.O.B-close to 300,000

Wow, Im listening to the wrong rappers. Why are these underground cats bothering making records?

They make more independently if they manage their money right. Especially if they own the label they are putting their albums out on. Like K-Rino for example. I'm sure he is making a decent living from his underground sales.

With records not reaching over 10k? Now I know if an indy cat pushes around 50,000 to 100,000 (which they were during the turn of the century) they eating good. But take in account all their expenses they ain't making much.

Dang! Trotter wrote:

With records not reaching over 10k? Now I know if an indy cat pushes around 50,000 to 100,000 (which they were during the turn of the century) they eating good. But take in account all their expenses they ain't making much.

I think some are. It doesn't cost that much to get 1,000 to 5,000 cd's pressed. And i'm sure digital even cost less to set up. If an indy artist can sell 5,000 albums for about $10 a piece thats 50 g's. Nice profit to me and if you add show money it gets even higher. Subtract there fees i'm sure some of them could pocket at the least 25-30 g's.

$10 bucks a disc times 10,000 discs is $100,000. I'm curious (honestly, I have no idea) what kind of expenses it takes to make an album independently (studio time, beats, pressing cds, etc.). How much do you think they would clear? $30k, $40k, less? That's pretty sweet for just making music, doing what you love. Plus there's show revenue and merch and what not, but idk this is all conjecture.

thelundquist wrote:

$10 bucks a disc times 10,000 discs is $100,000. I'm curios (honestly, I have no idea) what kind of expenses it takes to make an album independently (studio time, beats, pressing cds, etc.). How much do you think they would clear? $30k, $40k, less? That's pretty sweet for just making music, doing what you love. Plus there's show revenue and merch and what not, but idk this is all conjecture.

Na you are spot on. This is why the west coast and south was so ahead of the east when it came to knowing how to self market and self sustain in the industry. Its harder work but the pay off can be big. Artist on label only make way more money when there album go plat or more. Because then that is usually enough to cover that advance they may have taken and that small percentage they get per cd adds up more.

I think you guys are missing something. Whatever outlet you use to sell your record you have to pay them. It cost to go on tour. Run a studio. Sure they are eatin'. But in the 90's rappers were getting dropped for pushing only 250,000. Sure a profit was being made but not enough to keep labels interested. Its more complicated than sell 10k and make 100,000. Even major label cats are really broke

If these rappers were making 100,000 a pop they'd have enough to get big name cameos. Some of the biggest rappers charge like 20k for a 16. So why don't they do that? Immortal Tech states he only makes 40k an album. Theres a lot of factor to count in. Some of those indie
gangster rappers sell drugs .

Trott you are not getting it. There is waaaay more overhead dealing with a major label. With an indy you can control the cost way more. You should also have more options since theres usually not many hands in the pot. Back in the day being indy was more costly i'm sure because marketing and promotion was harder. But now with the internet that is over.

Tic706 wrote:

Trott you are not getting it. There is waaaay more overhead dealing with a major label. With an indy you can control the cost way more. You should also have more options since theres usually not many hands in the pot. Back in the day being indy was more costly i'm sure because marketing and promotion was harder. But now with the internet that is over.

Yeah, but in the 90's niggaz sold off word of mouth. Thats how NO LIMIT got big to the point P could afford promotion. Word of mouth don't mean shit nowadays, not even with the 'net.

Regardless though, indy record sale are miserable looking

Sales are miserable across the board. Indie or otherwise. So called stars ain't selling jack compared to before. In years before 100k or 250k in a week might not crack the top 10. Nowadays they get #1 records. Meek Mill is slated to have a #1 record next week with like 150K.

Different environment.

Cats on majors before were getting dropped before for only selling 250K because majors don't care about small time money makers. At a generous $10 a pop of profit 250K is only 2.5 million. For a major label who spent 100 to 500K on videos and promotion (or more) and they pay the artist, producer, studio time, etc. There is little meat on the bone.

Nowadays, labels have smartened up and can exploit artists even better.

Sign em to a 360 deal, dig into those mp3 sales, album sales, merch, tours, etc. Make the label pay for studio, producers, etc. So now what we have is this:

Sign "Maybach Music" - tell them you will give them x dollars + x percentage for each album.

And that's it. So now Ross has to pay all that shit, pay for everything and just deliver an album. Label puts it out. Pays less overhead, gets more money. So they can make do with wack sales.


Indie rappers it all depends on how "smart" they are with the money.

I doubt a lot of these indie rappers are paying much at all for beats, studio time, and features.

Spend 1000 to make the music. A $1 per copy to press it up.

Sell 5000 at 15 a pop - thats 75K there. take away 5000 for pressing the discs... splurge 5000 to make the album... that's still 65K. Better than a lot of jobs out there.

I figured mp3s would be a big factor. I mean, if someone sells 5,000 albums, does that include all of the mp3 downloads people buy?

SRP, be my manager

That's 65k, and you're assuming no A & R, promo, really minimal printing costs, stores not taking a cut/online retailers not taking a cut, studio time being super cheap, no taxes, etc., etc.

Myestro wrote:

I figured mp3s would be a big factor. I mean, if someone sells 5,000 albums, does that include all of the mp3 downloads people buy?

Yeah, that definitely factors in today, though if you are really small scale (and I would say 5 to 10k is small scale) most of your sales are going to be hand to hand show type stuff as opposed to just internet. I've heard iTunes leaves you with around 70% after it's all said and done, so $7 per album.

Shaun wrote:

SRP, be my manager

Sure, you'll be my flagship artist.

SteveT wrote:

That's 65k, and you're assuming no A & R, promo, really minimal printing costs, stores not taking a cut/online retailers not taking a cut, studio time being super cheap, no taxes, etc., etc.

Yes, this was a best case scenario type thing. But 5k for an album is really doable. Hood studios can be rented for anywhere from 25 to 50 bucks an hour. And that's not considering you could probably get a workable home studio installed for less than 1000.

For artist moving small time store/retail sales aren't going to be the biggest pusher though.

And everyone pays taxes. A 65K job is a 65K job. That's before taxes too.

Not about a rap indie artists but these guys explain how much they get from each platform(Cd,Vinyl,amazon,itunes etc..) I'm sure it can apply slightly for most independent artists

http://www.techdirt.com/blog/casestudies/articles/20110911/00284415891/how-much-does-band-make-various-music-platforms.shtml

Also most of these underground artists are doing the music because they love the music and while I am sure they love to get paid for it they would make their music regardless, which is why most of them have stuck around. Also underground artists seem to say something in their music that they feel passionate about giving them more of a reason to make the music, not to mention underground fans are more loyal(in some degree).The artists develops an audience and 9 times out of 10 the audience will enjoy that said underground artist releases because they did it 100% their way without major labels getting in their shit tainting their shit.

Anyway torrenting/pirateing music have really been hurting artists mainstream and independent, since its so easy. I googled vinnie paz's new album on the day it came out to order it and the first link I saw was a link to the piratebay. Not saying I don't torrent music I do but if I like what I hear after I listen to the album I normally buy it, sadly most people my age don't.