Cormega says this year has been a good one for hip-hop

Do you agree? I do not.

I agree.

I agree. Although I probably disagree entirely about why.

Cormega is correct.

It was the best year in hip hop since 2007

I think the only good mainstream release this year has been life is good...how is that a good year for hip-hop?

Hip-hop isn't limited to mainstream releases. I agree with trotter 07 was an amazing year. A half dozen classics, easy. Not a single one mainstream that I can think of.

Its been a great fucking year. Who gives a shit if its mainstream or not? I know Powell will not agree because he bases good years on how many "classics" there are, but IMO, a year with 20+ 4.0 or higher albums is dope. Relative to how many fucking albums drop per year nowadays, that is a super low percentage but I ignore fuck shit anyway. There's still at least a dozen highly regarded albums that I haven't even had the chance to peep yet.

I also think it's been a good year. No classic/near-classic releases but a lot of good/solid projects out there.

Steve's too busy trying to suck up to Powell to listen to new shit.

I dunno, Half... Billy Woods & Brother Ali are both 'near-classic', at least...

The only album even close to potentially anything other than a personal classic for anyone is Life is Good.

And guys, we need a strong mainstream to keep the art-form going. A strong underground/independent is important, but you need both or else the game suffers. Aside from R.A.P. Music, Life is Good, and Trophies, I don't think there is another release from this year I will ever listen to. That's a bad thing.

Bad for you. Everything's fine by me. Enjoy hating shit...

If you don't think a non-extant mainstream is a bad thing, c'mon man.

Don't really care. The mainstream music doesn't represent my point of view in the least. I'd say just about all of the mainstream artists besides Nas are a slap in the face to this music. I guess you could bend the definition to include more artistic folks, but my point remains.

Now I know correlation is causation, but was the music not at its peak when the mainstream was also at its peak?

'Mainstream' was different then. Amazingly talented acts became popular on their artistic merit. Now popularity is achieved through applying market-proven algorithms.

Art vs a product.

parker lewis wrote:

'Mainstream' was different then. Amazingly talented acts became popular on their artistic merit. Now popularity is achieved through applying market-proven algorithms.

Art vs a product.

Yes, you're making my argument for me quite nicely.

Yea, in a way I am.

Still though, I fail to see how it's relevant. Pop music is mainstream, whether its 'metal' like Papa Roach, 'punk' like Sum41, 'country' like Garth Brooks, or 'hip-hop' like Wayne...

Occasionally something with integrity squeaks through, Atmosphere (like them or not, they do it from the heart), Nas, Roots... it's no means of measurement or litmus as far as I'm concerned.

I just don't see the connection you seem to.

It's possible I'm completely misunderstanding your point.

Even though mainstream's weak this year, just like 07 there've been a lot of albums that I really enjoy. That makes it an excellent year to me.

I think your qualifying criteria is classic Strawman Fallacy, unless I'm mistaken.

i agree with Parker, mainstream doesnt matter as much anymore either with the internet and technology, things just aint the same

I can see both arguments. With rap being so wide now I don't really draw the line between mainstream and underground like I use too. Coming from Steve's point of view he is correct that 2012 has been weak for mainstream albums. But I look at the total sum and I feel 2012 is really solid. I thought 2011 was one of the best yrs for rap in some time. But 2012 is not far behind it.

Mainstream isn't need to be successful, you will never hear death metal or any real hard metal on the radio, yet it seems to still be around and doing quite well. To me all mainstream does is water down the content of the music. I also think the mainstream will never have a good year in rap again because mainstream is just awful because its the same gimmick givin to 150 different rappers.

I feel it's been a good hip hop year for me. Maybe not so good for mainstream artists. I think underground did their thing this year.

parker lewis wrote:

I think your qualifying criteria is classic Strawman Fallacy, unless I'm mistaken.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees this.

Strawman is inventing something from what you say Parker - i.e. you say we need Universal Healthcare, I say "oh so you hate freedom then?" etc.

Nothing has approached strawman in here. Please, [back] go to school. A. Scott is black so she may have never gone.

And mikelong, you are 18. You were born in 1994. You were 6 when the 90s ended. You never were around when the mainstream was important to the culture and music as a whole, so of course you say dumb shit like that.

It's a little more complex than that. You really need to quit armchairing shit I study ding-dong.

You're positioning the state of mainstream hip-hop as a gauge of overall quality. This is a given that only you have agreed with. It fits as Strawman in p--->q, where you're the only one even considering this equation. Just stop man. You don't know what you're talking about.

Is Strawman like Gucci Mane? If so anyone have a link to his mixtape?

Gucci gucci prada!

I don't understand at all how a weak mainstream performance negates the quality of the underground. I agree that a strong mainstream showing can help encourage the art in the eyes of the masses but a shit load of hot albums is a shit load of hot albums, regardless of which category you wanna place them in. Just because MA DOOM didn't impress 13 year old girls doesn't mean it was wack.

What I meant by mainstream is all the support, financially and infra-structure wise that accompanies a strong mainstream. A product that is only economically viable to a very small group (good rap, right now) is a bad thing. All I am saying.

So when you mean mainstream you are not talking about the actual mainstream you are just wishing that underground artists would get massive amounts of money and support like the same as the artists in the mainstream.

True I wasn't around when it going around that doesn't mean I can't respect the genre, also I stand by what I said you don't need mainstream to be successful in the hip-hop world. It helps having a huge multi-million dollar corporation behind you but it isn't needed.

Also I was talking about today's mainstream and I still stand by that TODAY'S mainstream is watering down the content imo. It helped back then I can assume because most people didn't know what Hip-hop/rap was but 9/10 times if you ask someone today and they will tell you at least something about it regardless whether or not its fact.

Also how is it a bad thing to not be supported by the mainstream, I can't say it's good having the the mainstream completely avoid underground but with todays social media the way it is half of the people I know do not even listen to the radio or anything like that they google bands or artists and use the internet to find their musical interest. I live Canada and hip-hop/rap isn't the most booming of topics here yet I am still able to find great artists due to the internet

Steve had a good point about how Vakill still works at UPS... I would like my favorite artists focusing on their craft. But, I think as fans we can usually get these guys to a point where they can live comfortably off their music.

I'm willing to bet Vakill could make more on touring & merch if he took a leap into it. But, any entrepreneurship is risky and I have no idea where he's been or who's depending on him.

There are degrees of 'underground' and, just like underground vs mainstream, success and quality are not always hand in hand.

Look at Access Immortal... a talented emcee who I'm sure needs to work a day job. Then there're dudes like... (Well, I don't want to turn this into people defending their favorite emcees. I'm sure you know what I mean)

SteveT wrote:

Strawman is inventing something from what you say Parker - i.e. you say we need Universal Healthcare, I say "oh so you hate freedom then?" etc.

Nothing has approached strawman in here. Please, [back] go to school. A. Scott is black so she may have never gone.

And mikelong, you are 18. You were born in 1994. You were 6 when the 90s ended. You never were around when the mainstream was important to the culture and music as a whole, so of course you say dumb shit like that.

Yep. There you go, insulting people who don't agree with you. Such a punk bitch move. But then that's how you roll...like a pack of 12 year old girls who think its cute to act like they are on their period everyday, or forgot to take their meds, wit'cha Tropic Thunder ass.

You still haven't answered any of my questions in the White Rapper thread. How come you didn't click on the link Steve? What's wrong, are you afraid you might learn something. Stop playing.