Top 50 Producers of All Time Day #3 (B)

Now we take it to the west coast and pay a visit to the legend, Dr.Dre. From NWA, Snoop, The DOC, Eminem and even The Game, his status can't be denied.

My third favorite producer. My second favorite westcoast producer. Everything he touched back in the late 80s (post-WCWC) and early 90s was classic. (Not including The Firm)

Top 25 easy

Number 2 on my GOAT list

Might be the best from the west.

Dre is top 10 rather easily.

Top 25. He is in my top 5.

Never was a big Dr. Dre fan. Gotta go neither.

alan, thats bullshit. you have spit in the face of rakim, ll cool j, dr. dre, snoop dogg, and more today. dr. dre isn't even a top FIFTY producer? i bet big jess is though.

top 5, probly number 3 for me

Steve wrote:

alan, thats bullshit. you have spit in the face of rakim, ll cool j, dr. dre, snoop dogg, and more today. dr. dre isn't even a top FIFTY producer? i bet big jess is though.

Have I really spit in their faces, Steve? lol

I'm being real with my choices. Do you understand that music is an art form, and it is perceived differently by everybody? You can't expect everyone to have those rappers in their top 5-10...hell, those rappers aren't even close to making the cut for my top 5-10. The only Dr. Dre produced album I spin religiously is "Straight Outta Compton". So no, Dre does not make my top 50. And you're damn right Big Jess is in my top 50. I listen to his music all the time, and he has produced 5 albums that I call personal classics, plus a ton of other stuff I listen to on a consistent basis.

okay alan, you dont think nobody can do it better has dope production? doggystyle? chronic? chronic 2001? relapse? eazy-duz-it? nwa and the posse? 100 miles and runnin? efil4zaggin? his work with xzibit, warren g, the game, eminem, etc.? there is a difference between perception and retardation my friend.

"okay alan, you dont think nobody can do it better has dope production?"

No One Can Do It Better...

Steve wrote:

okay alan, you dont think nobody can do it better has dope production? doggystyle? chronic? chronic 2001? relapse? eazy-duz-it? nwa and the posse? 100 miles and runnin? efil4zaggin? his work with xzibit, warren g, the game, eminem, etc.? there is a difference between perception and retardation my friend.

Yeah, that shit's dope hip-hop. But "Doggystyle" is the only one on the list that I'd call a personal classic besides "Straight Outta Compton". But I still rarely listen to it...so perhaps it's not really a personal classic. Would I objectively call all these classics? Yes, but not all; maybe 3, definitely 2. You and a lot of other folks on this forum dig the gangsta shit more than me. Simple as that. Above all, I don't like most of the rappers he produces for, so I don't bump the newer material that often.

fine, name me 50 other producers who have produced 2 personal classics of your entirely on their own?

Does it matter if you play the albums for producers? So Al, if you didn't like Guru, and didn't listen to GangStarr records because of that, would DJ Premier still be in your top whatever?

Steve wrote:

fine, name me 50 other producers who have produced 2 personal classics of your entirely on their own?

Eligh
9th Wonder
Speech
Ant
Ayentee
Rick Rubin
Bicasso
Marley Marl
Big Jess
Diamond D
Decompoze
Hi-Tek
Chief Xcel
DJ Shadow
Kid Koala
Dan The Automator
Sabzi
KRS-One
DJ Muggs
Sixtoo
Pete Rock
The Grouch
DJ Premier
El-P
Boots Riley
Headnodic
MF Doom
DJ Jazzy Jeff
DJ Quik
Edan
Elusive
Erick Sermon
DJ Abilities
RZA
Prince Paul
Havoc
Afrika Islam
Large Professor
J Dilla
Kurtis Mantronik
Lord Finesse
Mix Master Mike
Paris
?uestlove
Russell Simmons
Buckwild
Showbiz
Von Pea
Tony D
Pimp C

There's 50 I like more. And it was tough considering I couldn't put down group names. If I could, I could list far more.

less than 1/2 entirely produced albums on the list, and some of the inclusions OVER dre are ridiculous. hiphop is subjective, to a degree, but not even giving dre top 100 producer status is just wrong.

Shaun wrote:

Does it matter if you play the albums for producers? So Al, if you didn't like Guru, and didn't listen to GangStarr records because of that, would DJ Premier still be in your top whatever?

How am I supposed to like a producer I don't listen to? Let alone be a favorite?

With Gang Starr, even if you don't love Guru, the music is still stellar. But Premier is a bad example because he has so many other works.

Steve wrote:

less than 1/2 entirely produced albums on the list, and some of the inclusions OVER dre are ridiculous. hiphop is subjective, to a degree, but not even giving dre top 100 producer status is just wrong.

What? Like who?

Steve wrote:

less than 1/2 entirely produced albums on the list, and some of the inclusions OVER dre are ridiculous. hiphop is subjective, to a degree, but not even giving dre top 100 producer status is just wrong.

No, music is always subjective. It is art. I didn't give Dre top 50, he'd make my top 100 I guess.

so someone could say picasso is a bad painter? van gogh? rembrandt? etc.? no, no they couldnt, because they would be wrong, just like you are.

Steve wrote:

less than 1/2 entirely produced albums on the list

Not a chance. Maybe a couple. I just went through it again. Who are you doubting?

Steve wrote:

so someone could say picasso is a bad painter? van gogh? rembrandt? etc.? no, no they couldnt, because they would be wrong, just like you are.

Yes, of course. Anybody could say anybody is a bad artist. It is art! Come on Steve...smh

most the underground cats, and dudes like KRS-One, ?uestlove, Diamond D (what two albums?) i think if you listed the two albums it would make it even easier.

Steve wrote:

most the underground cats, and dudes like KRS-One, ?uestlove, Diamond D (what two albums?) i think if you listed the two albums it would make it even easier.

KRS-One: He's credited on most BDP albums (fully on BAMN). Need more? Just-Ice's 2nd album.

?uestlove: This was one I wasn't sure of. He produces most of The Roots stuff and has other production credits I dig more than Dre's all the way around.

Diamond D: Diamond and the Psychotic Neurotics for one. He doesn't need a second full album IMO. He's top 25 for me.

Is that really all you got? It's all my opinion. You can tell me it's wrong until you're blue in the face, but it's still my opinion.

Alan I know you hate all things mainstream but come man, Dre a neither? I respect the balls for saying that truly but somethings are so true they must be looked at objectively.

Kev that's ridiculous, someone like alan makes one of the dumbest statements in hiphop history and you commend his balls, but someone even makes a somewhat comment against the south or any of your faves and youre like the jews on christ. what gives?

KRob86 wrote:

Alan I know you hate all things mainstream but come man, Dre a neither? I respect the balls for saying that truly but somethings are so true they must be looked at objectively.

I feel I made a very objective list above. Did you look at it, Kev? Go ahead and question me on any producer you'd like. Please. I gave objective reasoning for my opinions. I mean, I actually took the time to do that Kev. Dre is definitely not top 50 for me. I don't know how I can make it any clearer.

If you are truly being objective there is no way in hell Dre does not make your list. I looked at your list and most are top top calibur no doubt but objectively most never had the career Dre had.

Steve wrote:

Kev that's ridiculous, someone like alan makes one of the dumbest statements in hiphop history and you commend his balls, but someone even makes a somewhat comment against the south or any of your faves and youre like the jews on christ. what gives?

Dumbest, huh? An idiot couldn't defend such a claim.

Well, what would be a dumber statement to make?

KRob86 wrote:

If you are truly being objective there is no way in hell Dre does not make your list. I looked at your list and most are top top calibur no doubt but objectively most never had the career Dre had.

Maybe I worded that wrong. Steve asked me to list producers that produced 2 or more personal classics of mine. Since I claimed Dre only had the one for me. Plus Doggystyle...maybe...cause I rarely listen to it. Within my own tastes and opinion, I do like all 50 of those producers more. I mean, I thought these threads were supposed to share opinions? Is that not it?

Steve wrote:

Well, what would be a dumber statement to make?

I argued the point. I believe in the point. And music has always been subjective.

KRob86 wrote:

If you are truly being objective there is no way in hell Dre does not make your list. I looked at your list and most are top top calibur no doubt but objectively most never had the career Dre had.

And Kev. Since we've been talking hip-hop in '07, can you actually ever remember me giving props to Dr. Dre beyond giving him his respect? You haven't. Because I never would have.

That's a ridiculous statement. It is fun to talk hip-hop on the internet where statements like that wouldn't get you laughed out of the room.

Whatever though, we've been fine for a while so I'm not trying to re-start anything, it's just ridiculous and I really think you are selling dre short ont he PRODUCTION side of the house.

Steve wrote:

That's a ridiculous statement. It is fun to talk hip-hop on the internet where statements like that wouldn't get you laughed out of the room.

Whatever though, we've been fine for a while so I'm not trying to re-start anything, it's just ridiculous and I really think you are selling dre short ont he PRODUCTION side of the house.

Of course it seems like I'm selling Dre short. But it shouldn't. If you would take a look at the posts, I made it clear that I am not speaking of him objectively, but with personal bias.

These polls are supposed to be about our opinion right?

If I was objectively voting, he'd be top 10 IMO. Is that what you wanted to hear? But I don't vote objectively like a magazine or something would try to. I vote how I actually feel about the artist. No bullshit.

The idea of some objective truth when it comes to art is bullshit anyway. People just feel like their opinions count more when a lot of other people agree with them, but that's not objectivity, it's just consensus.

Jason wrote:

The idea of some objective truth when it comes to art is bullshit anyway. People just feel like their opinions count more when a lot of other people agree with them, but that's not objectivity, it's just consensus.

Yep. That's pretty much what I'm saying.

No, you are both wrong. I could screech on a record for 5 hours, and that would be awful, right? Saying there is no true reality and way to quantify art in some shape or form is used by those whose art is spurned by others, well, because it sucks.

Steve wrote:

No, you are both wrong. I could screech on a record for 5 hours, and that would be awful, right? Saying there is no true reality and way to quantify art in some shape or form is used by those whose art is spurned by others, well, because it sucks.

It would be awful to me, but it might be good to somebody else. I've heard experimental music that sounds just like that to my ears, but there are people out there who love it. For something to be objectively shown it has to be a fact that can be proven with an absence of personal feeling, taste, or interpretation, which is essentially the antithesis to art.

Steve wrote:

No, you are both wrong. I could screech on a record for 5 hours, and that would be awful, right?

Nope, not to everyone.

I bet you'd describe a great deal of avant garde (of many genres) this way. I would as well. My roommate and a few of my other friends would highly disagree when concerning avant garde electronica music. I can respect the fact they see the beauty in something I cannot.

Jason wrote:

For something to be objectively shown it has to be a fact that can be proven with an absence of personal feeling, taste, or interpretation, which is essentially the antithesis to art.

Exactly.

You say exactly, when Jason couldn't be more wrong, and keeps digging the hole deeper, you both do. Without feeling is correct, but without taste? Wait, what? So are you trying to say without personal feeling again? Okay, I'll give you that one (yet eagerly await your contrived attempt at an explanation justifying the comment). Now we come to interpretation...WHAT? I guess nothing can be objectively judged. Since EVERYTHING requires interpretation. So....what isn't art? What can be objectively judged then? Apparently nothing according to you two.

Steve wrote:

You say exactly, when Jason couldn't be more wrong, and keeps digging the hole deeper, you both do. Without feeling is correct, but without taste? Wait, what? So are you trying to say without personal feeling again? Okay, I'll give you that one (yet eagerly await your contrived attempt at an explanation justifying the comment). Now we come to interpretation...WHAT? I guess nothing can be objectively judged. Since EVERYTHING requires interpretation. So....what isn't art? What can be objectively judged then? Apparently nothing according to you two.

Define "good taste".

I have friends who like that sort of avant garde music many would say is just terrible noise (myself included on much of it), but he also likes hip-hop, rock, blues, country, folk....whatever. He has good diverse taste IMO.

Objective or subjective anybody with common sense on said subject knows true talent. I would not ask someone to vote the way I think they should but when they start actually trying to sell there opinion as valid as the TRUE fact I have a problem with that. Like even though you prefer those 50 others over Dre you know most are not truly betta. You have an ear for music and these guys cannot make worldwide acceped beats like Dre.

Steve wrote:

You say exactly, when Jason couldn't be more wrong, and keeps digging the hole deeper, you both do. Without feeling is correct, but without taste? Wait, what? So are you trying to say without personal feeling again? Okay, I'll give you that one (yet eagerly await your contrived attempt at an explanation justifying the comment). Now we come to interpretation...WHAT? I guess nothing can be objectively judged. Since EVERYTHING requires interpretation. So....what isn't art? What can be objectively judged then? Apparently nothing according to you two.

Any time you might attach a word like "good", "awful", "classic", "inspirational", "moving", etc, that is an interpretation of value or meaning, and those are abstract concepts, which only even exist on a subjective level. For something to be objective, it has to exist independent of your mind. Now, if you look at philosophy, you can find arguments that say we can't be sure anything exists independently of our minds, or that we can access that reality, but we can keep it at more of a everyday, practical level than that.

Exactly, let's keep it everyday and practical, what can we practically objectively analyze in this world. Nothing, jack ass. So keep your tired ass objective arguments to yourself and admit y'all fools like basement dwelling rap and move on.

KRob86 wrote:

Objective or subjective anybody with common sense on said subject knows true talent. I would not ask someone to vote the way I think they should but when they start actually trying to sell there opinion as valid as the TRUE fact I have a problem with that. Like even though you prefer those 50 others over Dre you know most are not truly betta. You have an ear for music and these guys cannot make worldwide acceped beats like Dre.

Damn Kev, have read any of my posts at all?

I did not try to sell my opinion as fact. Not once. I was defending my opinion, which I am entitled to. Did you read the part where I said objectively I'd vote Dre top 10? What does that mean to you? It should mean I just said Dre had more talent than most of the producers on my list. It should, because that's exactly what it means. Never once was I saying it was "true fact". Where are you guys digging this stuff up?

Steve wrote:

Exactly, let's keep it everyday and practical, what can we practically objectively analyze in this world. Nothing, jack ass. So keep your tired ass objective arguments to yourself and admit y'all fools like basement dwelling rap and move on.

LOL - you already knew we liked a different styles of underground hip-hop than you. Did you forget?