Classic Album= Perfect Album?

I just read the following from some staff members of XXl:

"The term “classic” is possibly the most overused rating in hip-hop, yet its definition is still wide open for interpretation. I was chatting with M.B. and Rob the Music Ed earlier this week about Nas’s Stillmatic, and while the three of us noted that the album has its blunders (Rob calls “Braveheart Party” the worst rap song ever recorded, ha!) I still hold my ground regarding its classic status. Stillmatic, like Jay-Z’s Blueprint, was a time marker LP. It resurrected Nas’s career, brought creative concepts, made bold statements, and still bumps in my earbuds like it’s 2001.

Just because you might have to skip a song or two shouldn’t disqualify classic status. It’s more about the impact on the time period, contemporaries and hip-hop history. It’s about the overall quality of music, the novelty, how it ages and maintains relevance over time. That’s my “classic” criteria.

Stillmatic isn’t the only one that holds up to this perspective, either. It’s Dark And Hell Is Hot, DMX’s first album, is an all-time favorite. Dope rhymes. Dope beats. Proven shelf life. Changed the tone of hip-hop at the time. Established Swizz Beatz as a go-to producer. The album is probably a two-or three-song trim away from perfection, yet it holds classic status in my book. Moving on. Kanye West’s College Dropout is diluted by funny-the-first-time skits, and an extended tracklist that drags toward the middle-end. But is it a classic? Undoubtedly. Get Rich Or Die Tryin’—perfect? Almost. Classic? Yeah!

What do y’all think? Any more imperfect classics? Does a classic album really have to be perfect, or are you just too lazy to tap the “next track” button on the ’Pod? -JFK"

I agree with it pretty much, what y'all think?

I agree totally. I occasionally skip tracks on even my favorite all time albums. What makes an album classic to me is if it stands the test of time. If it's an album that I will find myself playing for the rest of my life, then I consider it a classic.

KJ Styles wrote:

I agree totally. I occasionally skip tracks on even my favorite all time albums. What makes an album classic to me is if it stands the test of time. If it's an album that I will find myself playing for the rest of my life, then I consider it a classic.

i agree with that, but you've said many times "if i like every track its a classic", which i totally disagree with. There are tons of albums where i can listen to every track and i wont rate them higher than 4/5. For example i can listen to every song on Afu-Ra's "Body of the Life Force" but in no way shape or form will i ever consider that anything close to a hip-hop classic. Classics to me have to do something more than give me all listenable tracks, they have to be great albums. So i agree with the description of a classic you just posted more than your previous ones

I think it's bullshit. Specifically with the Nas album, one can not contain the worst rap song ever and still consider it classic., and Braveheart Party is right up there when it comes to horrible sogs.


Using the 1 or 2 song exception is an excuse by fan boys who want to ignore the obvious flaws in their favorites albums.

Taking it a step further - if even a fan boy can sit there and say that they skip a track or that a certain track is wack then it should be FURTHER proof that an album is NOT classic because even in that person's eyes there are flaws.

Classics should be those albums that you play from start to finish without even wanting to press the skip button.

That is the definition I go buy. When I tell you I think Seagram - Soul On Ice is classic TO ME, it's because I play that joint from start to finish and love every single track. The same applies to Killah Priest - Black August, K-Rino - Blood Doctrine, Masta Ace -Slaughtahouse, Pharcyde - Labcabincalifornia, and any other album I say is classic to me.

If you tell me you think an album is classic but you skip a song or two I usually just e-roll my eyes and ignore you.

Slang, you are talking about a completely different thing. Sure there are some albums you can play from start to finish that are not necessarily classic - but don't you think that should be a pre-requisite for a classic album?

What sense does it make to skip tracks on a so-called "classic"? Especially when you don't on other albums?

People can't magically ignore tracks on an album because they really like the rest of it.

I disagree big time SRP in a universal sense. Of course if thats your criteria it's all good but to me a classic album can be that for so many other reasons other than not skipping one trk.

You can set all the criteria you want. Not skipping a track should absolutely be a pre-requisite for any classic rating.

I don't mean you have to literally listen to the album from start to finish each time, but by that I mean that you can not sit there and say that an album has even one bad song on it and still try to pass it off as classic. That's a foolish proposition.

The version of Stillmatic I have doesn't have Braveheart Party, but I still consider it a 3.5 - 4 star album. I can see some albums getting away with being called classic and not being perfect all the way through. I mean, they did it for Ready To Die (and apparently Life After Death.....wow), Doggystyle, Resurrection, E 1999 Eternal, Things Fall Apart, etc. All of those albums have throwaway tracks, but most people consider them classic, and I'd probably call them classic also. Except for Life After Death, which isn't classic.

KRob86 wrote:

I just read the following from some staff members of XXl:

"The term “classic” is possibly the most overused rating in hip-hop, yet its definition is still wide open for interpretation. I was chatting with M.B. and Rob the Music Ed earlier this week about Nas’s Stillmatic, and while the three of us noted that the album has its blunders (Rob calls “Braveheart Party” the worst rap song ever recorded, ha!) I still hold my ground regarding its classic status. Stillmatic, like Jay-Z’s Blueprint, was a time marker LP. It resurrected Nas’s career, brought creative concepts, made bold statements, and still bumps in my earbuds like it’s 2001.

Just because you might have to skip a song or two shouldn’t disqualify classic status. It’s more about the impact on the time period, contemporaries and hip-hop history. It’s about the overall quality of music, the novelty, how it ages and maintains relevance over time. That’s my “classic” criteria.

Stillmatic isn’t the only one that holds up to this perspective, either. It’s Dark And Hell Is Hot, DMX’s first album, is an all-time favorite. Dope rhymes. Dope beats. Proven shelf life. Changed the tone of hip-hop at the time. Established Swizz Beatz as a go-to producer. The album is probably a two-or three-song trim away from perfection, yet it holds classic status in my book. Moving on. Kanye West’s College Dropout is diluted by funny-the-first-time skits, and an extended tracklist that drags toward the middle-end. But is it a classic? Undoubtedly. Get Rich Or Die Tryin’—perfect? Almost. Classic? Yeah!

What do y’all think? Any more imperfect classics? Does a classic album really have to be perfect, or are you just too lazy to tap the “next track” button on the ’Pod? -JFK"

I agree with it pretty much, what y'all think?

Remind me never to buy a XXL magazine...

If I call an album a classic, it basically means that...

1) I love every track on it...

2) The vibe is perfect and the album plays well as a whole (you know, not just an album full of singles thrown together)

and

3) I find myself spinning it years and years down the line as if I just bought it (which is why the instant classic is a bit of an oxymoron, in my view)...

Of course, I'm sure there's more to it than that, and some folks make it a science (I don't), but that's basically what I need in order for it to even pass the smell test...

AFutureWithoutAPast wrote:

Remind me never to buy a XXL magazine...

lmao

I don't care what anybody says. MY definition of a classic is an album that stands the test of time and something that I'll play forever REGARDLESS of whether or not every song is dope.

Like Slang said, there are a number of albums that I'd say has nothing but good songs, yet they aren't classics to me because they don't have many GREAT songs. Hold It Down by Das EFX and Warriorz by MOP are prime examples. I like every track on them, but I really only find myself spinning 4-5 tracks on them frequently.

So I agree with XXL. Stillmatic was a landmark album, as was Life After Death. Both are better than It's Dark and Hell Is Hot IMO.

I can honestly overlook a bad track or two, but under normal circumstance the album has to be skip free. For instance, Braveheart Party is an automatic skip track, but the rest of the tracks are incredible to me so i still give it 5 stars. However, Change Clothes gets skipped every time so i don't consider The Black Album a classic. I can't really define why. Maybe it's cause Nas' album was so unexpected, or maybe cause The Black Album doesn't have anything as remotely strong as One Mic, Ether, Got Ur Self A Gun, or Rewind. Either way, i stand by rankings.

"If you tell me you think an album is classic but you skip a song or two I usually just e-roll my eyes and ignore you."

Cosign. For me, an album has to be skip proof, but that's not it. Take an album like Will Rap For Food. I don't skip anything on there, but some of the songs aren't good enough to consider the album classic

Like Nor said it's not a science if you really luv the album and with time you still luv it..classic. Even if you skip a few trks. But the key word is few, i'm thinking no more than 2-3 trks.

KRob86 wrote:

Like Nor said it's not a science if you really luv the album and with time you still luv it..classic. Even if you skip a few trks. But the key word is few, i'm thinking no more than 2-3 trks.

Norf didn't say about half of what you said...

If there are skip tracks, it's not a classic, period. End of discussion. It's not. Personal classic sure, but that's as far as it goes.


And It's Dark and Hell is Hot slaughters Life After Death and Stillmatic easily.

Steve wrote:

It's Dark and Hell is Hot slaughters Life After Death and Stillmatic easily.

I disagree entirely, and I agree with Kev and the XXL article.

Also, If classic albums are only defined by never skipping tracks on them, then I can honestly say that only about 20-30 albums at best are truly flawless.

Then Carter III is a classic, as is Curtis, and Graduation, and Kingdom Come, etc. by your stupid definition.

Steve wrote:

If there are skip tracks, it's not a classic, period. End of discussion. It's not. Personal classic sure, but that's as far as it goes.


And It's Dark and Hell is Hot slaughters Life After Death and Stillmatic easily.

I probably play It's Dark more than L.A.D., but i'm not sure if i play it more than Stillmatic.

Steve wrote:

Then Carter III is a classic, as is Curtis, and Graduation, and Kingdom Come, etc. by your stupid definition.

How do you figure that, Einstein?? With the exception of Graduation those albums are terrible.

Well stupid, they marked the time, which is what XXL is arguing for. If you don't believe that argument then go fuck yourself cuz you're a fanboy contradicting yourself.

Oh yeah I was always talking about personal classic but the same rules can be applied to universal classic. You know why? Because if enough people say it's classic and it's like that thru time and they still say that then it is a classic whether it has skip trks or not. The majority rules when speaking on universal classics.

Carter III is a classic, then...

Steve wrote:

Well stupid, they marked the time, which is what XXL is arguing for. If you don't believe that argument then go fuck yourself cuz you're a fanboy contradicting yourself.

Go take your Prozac and STFU Bi-Polar boy

Go take your diet pill and fuck a fat white chick window washer.

Steve wrote:

Carter III is a classic, then...

I haven't heard anyone call it a classic even his fans..so time will tell with that one.

Dude, tons of people called that classic. People who have been listening for a while don't really, but millions upon millions of uninformed masses have, shit, just look anywhere at his reviews, they are all either 5 or 1 star.

KRob86 wrote:

Steve wrote:

Carter III is a classic, then...

I haven't heard anyone call it a classic even his fans..so time will tell with that one.

I think he was refering to it marking a period in time.

KRob86 wrote:

Steve wrote:

Carter III is a classic, then...

I haven't heard anyone call it a classic even his fans..so time will tell with that one.

EXACTLY!!! Even most of them say that Carter II is a better album.

And yes, it is the biggest album of 2008, so any argument such as hype, impact, sales, imitation, etc. goes out the window.

Steve wrote:

And yes, it is the biggest album of 2008, so any argument such as hype, impact, sales, imitation, etc. goes out the window.

Well then is Please Hammer Don't Hurt Em a classic??

Thank for arguing my position, stupid.

KJ Styles wrote:

Steve wrote:

And yes, it is the biggest album of 2008, so any argument such as hype, impact, sales, imitation, etc. goes out the window.

Well then is Please Hammer Don't Hurt Em a classic??

Well according to the criteria by XXL it could be.

"It’s about the overall quality of music, the novelty, how it ages and maintains relevance over time."

THAT was the statement by XXL.

Under that definition, Please Hammer Don't Hurt Em is NOT a classic because people DON'T bump that shit today. Whether or not they do that with Carter III remains to be seen, but I doubt it.

"It’s more about the impact on the time period, contemporaries and hip-hop history."

"brought creative concepts, made bold statements"

The Hammer albums definitely met the benchmarks above though. I don't think that album is classic, but it would fit the guidelines set by XXL too. The point is there are too many exceptions and holes for XXL's opinion to have much merit. All a universal classic is a consensus of personal opinions. All classics start out as a personal classic. So at the end of the day, it simply boils down to personal opinion and taste.

More people bump old hammer tunes than they do nas illmatic. We're talking general population here. But you are more likely to hear Hammer than anything from Nas at parties, radio stations, etc.

Southern Rap Pro wrote:

More people bump old hammer tunes than they do nas illmatic. We're talking general population here. But you are more likely to hear Hammer than anything from Nas at parties, radio stations, etc.

BULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLSHIT!!!!!

Exactly Terry^^^^^^

But one thing I think we all can agree on and can be proven is time really shows what is classic.

A classic album needs impactful standout cuts that stand the test of time IMO. Not singles necessarily, but cuts that you keep you grabbing for the album for years to come. Not just a set of skip-proof songs that tend to be very strong.

So it depends. If the album has a greater number of standouts that keeps me coming back, I'm more likely to forgive a less-than-classic track on an album and still call it a classic. However, I couldn't call an album a classic if there is a bad (full-time skipper) song on it.

How is anybody gonna say there are bad songs on E99? I can see some one saying theres a track they don't LIKE on there, but saying it's wack? That's CRAZY.

N3R0 of 0nslaught3r wrote:

How is anybody gonna say there are bad songs on E99? I can see some one saying theres a track they don't LIKE on there, but saying it's wack? That's CRAZY.

Who's saying it's wack?

Throwaway? As in, you'd throw it away, as in, you'd leave it on the cutting room floor.

N3R0 of 0nslaught3r wrote:

Throwaway? As in, you'd throw it away, as in, you'd leave it on the cutting room floor.

I'm just sayin there were a couple of throwaway tracks on that album. I'm not saying the album is wack. I still consider it to be a classic, as I also said.