100 Greatest Nominee Day 28

Salt N Pepa

Neither...you already knew that though.

They may not be the best, or even the first, but they blew the door off the hinges for females in the business. Artistic freedom...freedom of expression... Without them, there would be no Kim, Trina, Foxy, Jacki-O, etc...

The jury is out on whether that's a good or bad thing, though. lol

Top 100 for me.

Salt n Pepper are female rap music legend's In my book. Top 50. Let's talk about sex, Push It and Tramp were all the Jam's back In the day.

I hope that the bullshit biases against female rappers don't keep them off this list, because honestly that's a closed minded reason not to vote for them.

Salt N Pepa had talent, mass appeal, classic hits, undeniable impact, and they're pioneers. Hence, they MORE THAN DESERVE to be on this list. For all those reasons, they're in the top 50.

Top 100 cause I like some of their songs and they did it in a big way for both females and female groups - they were good but not skilled enough for the top 50 IMO

I've got this pioneering female group in the top 100 of all-time, no questions asked

Hot,Cool, and Vicious is a CLASSIC album and opened the doors for the females to even think about emceeing as a career

they were not the first females on the mic (that distinction falls to Sha Rock and Sequence which featured r&b songstress Angie Stone in the group)

but they (Salt-N-Pepa) were the female equal to Run-D.M.C. in terms of mass appeal, mainstream success, big time videos, and just a recognizable brand name

Also they were the start for superproducer Hurby "Luvbug" Azor who did it big with Kid-N-Play, Kwame and Sweet Tee to name a few....

top 100 material for certain right here

KJ Styles wrote:

I hope that the bullshit biases against female rappers don't keep them off this list, because honestly that's a closed minded reason not to vote for them.

Salt N Pepa had talent, mass appeal, classic hits, undeniable impact, and they're pioneers. Hence, they MORE THAN DESERVE to be on this list. For all those reasons, they're in the top 50.

People should vote how they feel, and if they don't like female mc's, than so be it.

D.Powell wrote:

I've got this pioneering female group in the top 100 of all-time, no questions asked

Hot,Cool, and Vicious is a CLASSIC album and opened the doors for the females to even think about emceeing as a career

they were not the first females on the mic (that distinction falls to Sha Rock and Sequence which featured r&b songstress Angie Stone in the group)

but they (Salt-N-Pepa) were the female equal to Run-D.M.C. in terms of mass appeal, mainstream success, big time videos, and just a recognizable brand name

Also they were the start for superproducer Hurby "Luvbug" Azor who did it big with Kid-N-Play, Kwame and Sweet Tee to name a few....

top 100 material for certain right here

LMAO...you did not list ONE single thing that has to do with skill. You really can't think of 100 rappers better than them?

It's not just about skill there are a million rappers with skills. But they do not know to make a song people want to hear or they don't know how to make an album worth crap. All they can do is rap about how deadly they are on the mic over boring beats thru 16 trks of bullshit. Some of the people who make this top 100 touch people on mass levels, there music is timeless or means something. Salt N Pepa are one of these grps, they had mass appeal, chemistry, major singles, top selling albums, and they original.

Kill it Steve, I can't listen to anything that you say regarding female emcees man...you've made it clear many times that you can't stand them...

Yes I can think of 100 rappers who I think had more "skills" than Salt-N-Pepa

but as Kev said it's sometimes about much more than "skills" my dude...impact on the industry..influence, mass appeal, timeless records

I mean Ras Kass has more skills than them and so does Canibus as examples but neither one of those dudes are getting in MY personal top 100 of all-time

Salt-N-Pepa trumps both of those dudes on my list, obviously not based on their skills but on what they meant to female emcees...they are a pioneering act that had alot of inlfluence man whether you like female emcees or not

canibus and ras kass definitely deserve top 100... it seems most people are voting based on outside factors...

I actually like Salt N Pepa - one of the few female emcee acts I can listen to - not the most skilled but I have listened to them the most out of all female emcees so they would make my list personally.

Ras Kass gets in my personal top 20 but thats just me Powell

i agree Salt N Pepa were pioners hand had a huge impact, but i dont think theyre top 100 only because i think other female mc's are way better and would put at least 3 other female mc's in my personal top 100, like Lauryn Hill, Jean Grae, and Queen Latifah...but with all that said i dont think im going to vote on this since all ive heard from them is the Black's Magic, and obviously there singles

Canibus and Ras Kass IMO are not even top 200 on MY personal list SRP

Not even close my dude

if that's the case then Kam, Ed O.G., Benzino, Chino XL and a few others should be on the list too, I mean these dudes had "skills" too...probably more than most on the list already

If Canibus and Ras Kass are on it then I know your putting Stetsasonic on your list too right??

Stetsa could make it once all is said and done - but I'd have to see who else made it - but you are way out of line comparing Ras Kass and Canibus to Benzino...

Chino XL I can see - Kam and ED OG on a lower level - but skills wise - Canibus and Ras Kass blow so many out of the water - they are some of the few that can make it despite the lack of a classic album - though Can has come close and lyrically Soul On Ice can go toe to toe with any classic album.

dude, just because an artist was a pioneer doesnt mean they are on someones personal top 100 over someone else

for example, i would put Inspectah Deck and Ras Kass easily in my top 50 over, say Stetsasonic, because i personally like them better

If the votes werent personal this list would be like any other list you could find on any other site...ya know?

I'm not comparing Ras Kass and Canibus SKILLS-WISE to Benzino at all...they would both murder him easily

but please do NOT sleep on Ed.O.G. and Kam and say they are on a lower level...I think they would get Canibus, both of them and this is my opinion

but since these fringe artists can make it for people I would add Special Ed and Chubb Rock to my top 100 list easily...

they would take out more than few dudes listed on some people's lists IMO

I've got more "fringe" artists that would make my list too...but top 100 of all-time is a very special list...it means the top 100 artists of a genre and that means something to me and in all honesty I couldn't see Canibus nor Ras Kass getting on it before say Grand Puba..who had more impact and just as much skills as those two IMO

AGAIN THIS IS ALL MY OPINION!!

got to make that s**t clear.....lol

Benzino's main contribution to hip-hop was through the Source Magazine...

not his skills on the mic or any records he's released...lol

I remember when many people were asked what is all required when it comes to who should make Top 100. Looking at most people's lists, Salt N Pepa pretty much have ALL the requirements to make the Top 100.

Are they the best female MC's ever, maybe not. But are they wack? Hell No!!

Keep in mind though, that if it wasn't for them, they'd be no Lauryn Hills, no Jean Grae's or whoever you might feel is better.

Guys like Ras Kass and Canibus, while talented, have NONE of the other criteria to make the Top 100 IMO. They didn't sell much, they had no mass appeal, no impact, and neither of them have any consensus classics. Canibus' claim to fame was his beef with LL and he's been relatively obscure ever since. Ras Kass isn't very well known outside of the West Coast, and got punked out by The Game.

I'm sorry, I just think it's bullshit to exclude someone because of their gender. I felt the same way when some people voted neither on MC Lyte, and Lyte would lyrically MURK many male MC's in her prime, and probably still would today.

Salt N Pepa were the female version of Run-DMC. They'd EASILY be first ballot hip-hop Hall of Famers, therefore they should be in the Top 100.

That's just my 2 cents.

I agree that the have a lot of intangibles, and i voted top 100. However, if a person does not like female mc's than none of Salt N Pepa's criteria will not matter. This whole top 100 thing will boil down to who we like to listen to the most, right?

Hall of Fame is different from Greatest.

Quite simply. I mean we can sit here all day an talk about requirements and criteria but at the end of the day this is vote and anyone can vote as they wish.

Powell, I'm not following your argument - how is voting for Ras Kass and Canibus based on skill equivalent to voting for Benzino because he started a magazine?

And KJ, you must never have heard Soul on Ice or Rip The Jacker to make those comments.

I just through Benzino in the mix SRP, try not to read into it too much man, it's not that serious


I do not think Canibus and Ras Kass as examples are even top 200 of all-time...

whenever you say all-time that means HALL OF FAME for me anyway...those two dudes are great talent wise but not hall of fame members IMO

I could see Canibus and Ras making the top 100 and not making it but mos def not the top 50. They are highly skilled lyrically and get love from the underground and their peers.

I could EASILY name 100 hip-hop artists Kev that I would put in over Canibus and Ras Kass

they have skills in abundance just like Kam does or Ed O.G. or Paris or Chino XL or many others but 100 slots is not alot of slots man

I think people think that is alot of slots and those joints will get filled up pretty quick man

Kev do you think that Grand Puba or Chubb Rock or Special Ed should get in a top 100 before Canibus or Ras Kass?? I do but I was wondering your thoughts on it....

Yeah I'd figure Canibus somewhere into the top 100.

RoyceJustShootsNines wrote:

Hall of Fame is different from Greatest.

And KJ, you must never have heard Soul on Ice or Rip The Jacker to make those comments.

I have heard those albums SRP, matter of fact I own Rip The Jacker. They're both 4.5 IMO. I can see why some would consider them classics though. I just said that they weren't CONSENSUS classics because they aren't often mentioned among all time great albums like Hot, Cool, and Vicious is.

And I know they will never make it, but Kev you gotta do Rodney O and Joe Cooley the honor of putting them to a vote when we reach the end of this - but not before as I want to try to get people a chance to peep them.

KJ Styles wrote:

RoyceJustShootsNines wrote:

Hall of Fame is different from Greatest.

And KJ, you must never have heard Soul on Ice or Rip The Jacker to make those comments.

I have heard those albums SRP, matter of fact I own Rip The Jacker. They're both 4.5 IMO. I can see why some would consider them classics though. I just said that they were CONSENSUS classics because they aren't often mentioned among all time great albums like Hot, Cool, and Vicious is.

To me those albums overall are around the same rating - but lyrically - just separating them from the beats - I'd personally say those two albums are some of the greatest lyrical displays ever seen on a rap record..

So Salt n Pepa is better than MC Lyte...Lauryn Hill...Jean Grae...Queen Latifah, Eve, Foxy Brown, Da Brat, Missy Elliot, etc????? funk NO! You guys are RIDICULOUS with your subjective ass "oh my god this sold so he gotta be top 100!"

I already stated that to me I would rather bum SP over all those rappers you listed so that is why I voted the way I did.

D.Powell wrote:

I could EASILY name 100 hip-hop artists Kev that I would put in over Canibus and Ras Kass

they have skills in abundance just like Kam does or Ed O.G. or Paris or Chino XL or many others but 100 slots is not alot of slots man

I think people think that is alot of slots and those joints will get filled up pretty quick man

Kev do you think that Grand Puba or Chubb Rock or Special Ed should get in a top 100 before Canibus or Ras Kass?? I do but I was wondering your thoughts on it....

I could name over 100 before them also Powell subjectively. I do think Puba and Chubb should be before Ras and Can but I never heard a Special Ed album so Canibus would make it for me before him. I never felt Ras Kass he's boring as crap.

Should I nominate Puba solo or just include his solo contributions be included in Brand Nubian. Same question for LOX and Cee-Lo/Goodie Mob? What y'all think?

I also agree that these slots will fill quick so keep that in mind when voting.

SRP I am glad someone else feels Rodney O and Joe Cooley they have to be the best west coast pioneer kept secret in hip hop. But they would not get voted into the top 100.

Steve wrote:

So Salt n Pepa is better than MC Lyte...Lauryn Hill...Jean Grae...Queen Latifah, Eve, Foxy Brown, Da Brat, Missy Elliot, etc????? funk NO! You guys are RIDICULOUS with your subjective ass "oh my god this sold so he gotta be top 100!"

Based on all criteria, the only ones I could see rated over them are Lyte, Lauryn, and maybe Latifah.

Puba and Lox solo members have not really made a splash in away for to consider them - I mean Puba, Sadat, Styles, Jada, and Sheek have all made some dope albums - but for the Lox their solo careers have been up and down and hit or miss - for Nubian they have been short.

I would say put the groups to vote as a whole - though neither might make my top 100.

Kev, from a personal perspective I would absolutely put Cee-lo up as an individual, but in all honesty, i'm not sure his impact as a solo artist is global enough. He would probably make my top 100, but he can be included with Goodie Mob

Thats what I was thinking...because the LOX, Nubian, and Goodie as a whole should make it when taking their solo's into consideration.

I don't see Lauryn Hill making it before Latifah, S & P, or Lyte because she only had one solo album which was mostly R&B. Only two grp albums even though one is a all time great.

LMAO....guess biggie doesnt make it then huh kev?

ok i think people are taking it out of context

Isnt this the 100 Greatest Hip Hop Artists according to the members of Hiphopforlife.forumotion.com???

If so, this list will and should comprise of who the majority of people on this site feel should be in their top 100, since this list is unique to this forum....

let me give you an example, i guarantee you Royce da 5 9 gets in on this site because so many people on here feel him even though he prob wouldnt get in on other sites, which is fine because it is this specific websites opinion on the 100 Greatest, not an all-time rap hall of fame....wasnt this the intended purpose???

No way Lauryn Hill or Latifah put in enough work to compare to the career and impact of Salt N Peppa.

MarcoPolo wrote:

No way Lauryn Hill or Latifah put in enough work to compare to the career and impact of Salt N Peppa.

lol, go look up Queen Latifah on wikipedia. and shut up, vernon.

KRob86 wrote:

I don't see Lauryn Hill making it before Latifah, S & P, or Lyte because she only had one solo album which was mostly R&B. Only two grp albums even though one is a all time great.

I would personally rank Mc Lyte, Salt N Peppa, Latifah then Lauryn. Her effort's on "The Score" is what I feel put's Lauryn in the conversation.

RoyceJustShootsNines wrote:

Puba and Lox solo members have not really made a splash in away for to consider them - I mean Puba, Sadat, Styles, Jada, and Sheek have all made some dope albums - but for the Lox their solo careers have been up and down and hit or miss - for Nubian they have been short.

I would say put the groups to vote as a whole - though neither might make my top 100.

Puba has not made a splash SRP??

at one time he was considered top 5 dead or alive

everybody from Mary J Blige to Pete Rock wanted an appearance from this guy on their album

as for Brand Nubian

well they released

One For All(1990)
In God We Trust(1992)
Everything Is Everything(1994)
Foundation(1998)
Fire In The Hole(2004)
Time's Running Out(2007)

so they've got waaay more than enough time and work put in to be a top 50 of all-time group IMO

and every member of the group has solo efforts as well...so they've put their time in big time man

Saying Puba was top 5 dead or Alive at one time may be pushing it, but top 10 is realistic I suppose. Puba's impact is limited to Brand Nubian. His impact was not large enough as a solo mc.

I hardly consider two good solos and one horrible one almost 10 years apart enough for someone to be established as a soloist or consider them "putting in their time" like Terry said, Puba's biggest impact comes from Brand Nubian. Take that away from the equation and he is not that accomplished. As a group I can see the case made, but as a soloist I think it's ridiculous to try to vote him in. Are you going to tell me you want Lord Jamar in too based on one CD?

Sadat X has more solos lately but I don't think his solo work is of the quality level to warrant his double inclusion on a top 100 either.

Slang Editorial wrote:

dude, just because an artist was a pioneer doesnt mean they are on someones personal top 100 over someone else

Exactly. They were pioneers for sure, and I respect their status. But no way is Salt N Pepa in my top 100 most listened to rappers/rap groups. So I gotta go with "neither".

Alan it's not just pioneer status that gets them in the top 100 it's orignality, chemistry, major singles, mass appeal, and classic albums. This is some crap they did not make the top 100 you cats need to do the history fa real. See this is why me, Powell, Nor, and others use always tell some of you that you had to be there to truly understand the impact of these artist. Some of you just went back and listened to their music within the last 2-8 yrs ago but i'm telling all that voted neither for dumb reasons you need to check that history. SNP was the standard and set the bar for rap grps period.

No offense, but screw the history Kev. An artists history won't make them sound any better to me. Anyone telling me or anyone else that we had to be there is doing nothing but being smug and condescending. I guess Hammer will make the list too. He seems to fit most of the criteria.

At one time Terry Grand Puba was considered top 5 dead or alive...he was that NASTY man, no reason for me to lie about that...I'm talking about in the NYC area at the time so if your not from around here then you won't know what I'm talking about...

Puba also had a major influence with his first group Masters Of Ceremony, which although they weren't around long they made hits and were influential...especially on the reggae/hip-hop tip

so Puba has two groups that he influenced (Masters Of Ceremony and Brand Nubian) and he did have a solo career and your going to tell me that he's not top 100 of all-time but Canibus and Ras Kass are?? (this is to SRP)

YEAH RIGHT....lol...but it's all good because that's your opinion

I understand the history won't make them sound betta to some that is why I said you had to be there. It works both ways and I hate for it to sound condescending but it is what it is. I would not just disagree with someone who loved Al Green that grew up during his era about how he sounds now or how old his stuff sounds in 2009. If they told me I had to be there I would feel them 1,000%! Hammer may could make but he would fall short catalog and originality wise imo.

Difference is Al Green makes good music... period... that transcends time.. like young kids can jam his crap and appreciate it.

Obviously Salt n Pepa ain't the same way. Let's face it, there's something about push it and talk about sex and all that they are known for that too some screams 1990s pop/rap old school and does not sound dope in 2009.

So I can see both sides.

I think when it comes to greatest of ALL TIME - this you had to be there business is bull