Best City for Soulful Underground Rap...

You got Seattle as a contender with Blue Scholars, Common Market, and all that stuff Space Muzik bumps. Minneapolis is a contender for Atmosphere, Knonam, and Pounds. Detroit might be a contender, but I think their production tends to be a little too head banging for this category... so what is your choice?

Any white city - Minneapolis, Seattle, uh...I'm sure there are other white cities too.

lol idiots

This is a serious question - you don't think Seattle can take the crown Spacey? I think it could - which is pretty good for a city like them. You know Kid Sensation is coming out with a new CD...

RoyceJustShootsNines wrote:

This is a serious question

lol

The only reason you bring up Seattle is because I rep them a lot here on the forum. If it weren't for me nobody would be talking about Seattle.

No... I knew seattle was making pseudo boring underground before i met you spacey... Gabriel Teodros or whatever and all his people and stuff made me aware.. do you want the crown or not?

I think y'all are getting caught up in the name... if you can come up with something better to describe the Seattle/Minneapolis sound I will happily change the title...

<Space Muzik> wrote:

The only reason you bring up Seattle is because I rep them a lot here on the forum. If it weren't for me nobody would be talking about Seattle.

Oh crap, I didn't even know you were C. Tran. I saw "space muzik" and I thought of Exzakt immediately. lol

What up Brian Lanham...

Pounds isn't Latham.

Anyways, I'm trying to have a serious discussion.. how would you describe the seattle sound?

Come to think of it, I should have know you weren't Exzakt from the icon, because he says "sports are for fags"...I know he did at one time anyway. lol

Minnesota Hip-Hop Fiend wrote:

wrote:

The only reason you bring up Seattle is because I rep them a lot here on the forum. If it weren't for me nobody would be talking about Seattle.

Oh crap, I didn't even know you were C. Tran. I saw "space muzik" and I thought of Exzakt immediately. lol

Smh Al, you know I have to defend my city...lol

<Space Muzik> wrote:

What up Brian Lanham...

What? Nah man. It's Al

There you go Tran man - now get back to discussion...

RoyceJustShootsNines wrote:

Pounds isn't Latham.

Anyways, I'm trying to have a serious discussion.. how would you describe the seattle sound?

Pure hip hop.

<Space Muzik> wrote:

Minnesota Hip-Hop Fiend wrote:

<Space Muzik> wrote:

The only reason you bring up Seattle is because I rep them a lot here on the forum. If it weren't for me nobody would be talking about Seattle.

Oh crap, I didn't even know you were C. Tran. I saw "space muzik" and I thought of Exzakt immediately. lol

Smh Al, you know I have to defend my city...lol

LOL - I still rep mine, but it's pointless to do it here.

Minnesota Hip-Hop Fiend wrote:

wrote:

What up Brian Lanham...

What? Nah man. It's Al

Nah, I was calling SRP Brian because of this whole statement about Seattle being boring.

I chose soulful... I think the term Pure Hip Hop is too pretentious and would detract from serious conversation.

I dunno Al I like the production from Seattle more...

<Space Muzik> wrote:

Minnesota Hip-Hop Fiend wrote:

<Space Muzik> wrote:

What up Brian Lanham...

What? Nah man. It's Al

Nah, I was calling SRP Brian because of this whole statement about Seattle being boring.

Ah, gotcha.

I'm gonna see Blue Scholars this weekend for my 2nd time at Sound Set '09!

http://www.myspace.com/soundset

I love hip-hop festivals!

Man I seen them too many times. They always put on a great show though ().

So that's it? Seattle vs. Minneapolis... what about oxnard or wherever Living Legends is from? Or Oakland or San Fran - they do it big as well... gotta be more nominees... chicago?

<Space Muzik> wrote:

Man I seen them too many times. They always put on a great show though ().

They put on one of my favorites back in '05. Loved every second of it. It was a very small, intimate venue. So that was a plus...for the fans anyway.

I'm excited to see The Pharcyde reunion too....among many others.

Y'all need to start a blue scholars gay love thread if you aren't going to stay on topic.

RoyceJustShootsNines wrote:

So that's it? Seattle vs. Minneapolis... what about oxnard or wherever Living Legends is from? Or Oakland or San Fran - they do it big as well... gotta be more nominees... chicago?

Legends stay at LA nowadays. But they used to mostly rep the bay area.

I guess I don't think of "boring scenes" really. A lot of scenes have boring hip-hop including Minneapolis & Seattle. I've heard plenty of boring hip-hop from the west coast and east coast. South could be boring too I suppose. I haven't heard as much, but much of it tends to be wack or dope to me - less in between. But if I listened to more southern stuff, I'm sure I'd find boring material there. Just like any city, the deeper you dig, the more of everything (good, bad, boring) you will find.

No Pounds... it is Soulful Undergound now... I changed it...

So what are the best cities for soulful underground... like the soulful production with the honest lyrics...

RoyceJustShootsNines wrote:

No Pounds... it is Soulful Undergound now... I changed it...

So what are the best cities for soulful underground... like the soulful production with the honest lyrics...

LOL - ok. Maybe LA then. The smooth west coast jazzy stuff. I tend to like the new artists I hear coming out of there.

Like who? All I know out of LA is LL and like Custom Made and CM is wack...

RoyceJustShootsNines wrote:

No Pounds... it is Soulful Undergound now... I changed it...

So what are the best cities for soulful underground... like the soulful production with the honest lyrics...

lol now this sounds like a serious question. I would honestly say Detroit- that's really where all the soulful underground hip hop starts. Even with all that head banging, it's still has that soulful sound.

"Detroit might be a contender, but I think their production tends to be a little too head banging for this category"

Detroit would probably get my pick. With Black Milk, Dilla (RIP), Subterraneous (OK, they're not from Detroit, but they're close). Royce has been doing a bunch of soulful stuff lately, too, so Detroit wins

Yeah, Detroit takes the crown - their crap has a little hard edge to it though...

RoyceJustShootsNines wrote:

Like who? All I know out of LA is LL and like Custom Made and CM is wack...

Here's some:

Blu
Grip Grand
Crown City Rockers
Raashan Ahmad
Hieroglyphics (most of them)
Project Blowed/Freestyle Fellowship (some of them)
Living Legends (all of them)
Quannum/Solesides/Mighty Underdogs
People Under The Stairs
Kero One
Zion I

I'd give it to LA as well.

I think New York has it if we're talking overall for all time, but Detroit, Chicago, Seattle, and the Twin Cities are dope right now. Aside from NY, I think you gotta give it to Minne/St Paul.

Lord Emperor N3R0N0N wrote:

I think New York has it if we're talking overall for all time, but Detroit, Chicago, Seattle, and the Twin Cities are dope right now. Aside from NY, I think you gotta give it to Minne/St Paul.

I would have said that, but what's the point....lol....you know I love my ho-town.

I will say that the NY golden age of jazz/alternative rap may be my favorite as well in an "all-time" aspect.

New york was never really underground though when it dropped its best work...

is there better work than "the golden era"?? I think that's what Pounds is referring too

yep NYC rules this category as well in terms of overall best city for soulful underground hip-hop

in '09 I'm giving it to Detroit and Chi-Town

New York wasn't underground during the golden era powell...

RoyceJustShootsNines wrote:

New York wasn't underground during the golden era powell...

But weren't most of the labels back then indy when they started up? Before a number of them blew up to where they are today? In that respect, I can see Powell's point. I'm not sure when the term "underground" was coined in hip-hop, but much of the golden age east coast classics have a similar aesthetic to the underground hip-hop we know today...because that's what influenced today's underground artists.

That's moot point. And what album exactly was "soulful" during the golden age? I seem to remember bombastic drums and guitar riffs, or live funk bands...maybe I missed all of those Al Green samples on Criminal Minded...hmmm.

Lord Emperor N3R0N0N wrote:

And what album exactly was "soulful" during the golden age?

Ummm, A Tribe Called Quest & Digable Planets immediately come to mind, and many more.

It depends how you define "soulful" though, as I see you have it in quotes.

Now I think we're redefining the "golden age" as well.


But I agree with what you're saying about those two particular acts. I'm just saying what's typically associated with "golden age" (ie mid 80's) there wasn't much to speak of in terms of soulful beats compared to now IMO.

Pete Rock's samples were soulful N3RO

Prince Paul incorporated some soul usage in alot of his stuff as well as many other things

Preemo would use soul samples many times
Easy Mo Bee would use soul samples

Dj Quik would use soul samples

Dr.Dre would use P-Funk and Soul samples for his music

I mean N3RO you missed out man....soul as well as James Brown as well as P-Funk as well as jazz/blues...I mean the golden era had it all

1) Pete Rock & CL Smooth dropped in the 90's

2) Prince Paul CHOPPED soul samples out of their soulfulness

3) Again, Primo never just let a soul sample ride out to fully enjoyed, he chopped them in to pure hip hop dopeness

4) Easy Mo Bee...are you kidding? He produced a grand total of TWO tracks on It's Big Daddy Thing (neither of which were real soulful), then went on to produce the clunker "Words From The Genius" until he finally broke out with some truly dope and soulful beats during the BAD BOY ERA in the LATE 90's.

5) Quik did funky beats...mostly. I'll give you credit that he did have a few soulful loops but nothing in terms of the quantity that are prevalant today.

6) Dre used P Funk samples, reggae samples...where did he use a soul sample? Oh, "Lil Ghetto Boy"? In 92? Okay.


I usually think of the golden age as BOOM BAP, not soul. Also, I would THINK you classify 85-90 as the "golden age" not 90-95.

Lord Emperor N3R0N0N wrote:

I usually think of the golden age as BOOM BAP, not soul. Also, I would THINK you classify 85-90 as the "golden age" not 90-95.

Here we go again. lol

I've read it a few places, and this makes sense to me:

The golden age is often cited as being "bookended" by two records. 1986's "Raising Hell" by Run-DMC through Dr. Dre "The Chronic" in 1992.

However, there are so many theories about this out there it's insane. 86-92 is what I stick to though.

Truthfully I don't consider any particular age of hip hop the "golden age" it's all golden as long as it's still rollin. That's why all this throwback crap irritates me so much. To say that an artform at it's inception is better than where it is 30 years later is ridiculous. funk it, whatever. NY is the best at everything all the time no matter what, right? Anybody that doesn't see any flaw in that argument is incapable of admitting bias and truthfully I don't really see myself having any kind of intelligent conversation with.

Umm N3RO the Golden Era resonated from:

1985-1990 (the first golden era)

1990-1996 (the second golden era)


your not totally familar with all of Dre's work are you?? he used Ashford and Simpson samples...Chaka Khan samples, Patti LaBelle's samples....

sounds soulful to me


9th Wonder who to me reminds me the most of the modern day Preemo is a very soulful producer and his major inspiration was Preemo...Preemo used EVERYTHING N3RO.....go on youtube and put in his name and see where alot of his samples came from man

LEARNING IS GOOD, but the problem with you is you don't want to learn...you want to think...I'm 23...I'm from Iowa...I've been listening to hip-hop for about 10 years (If that long) and what I say goes


Okay N3RO you win man...what you say goes....well I mean it goes for you and that's what counts man.....keep being stubborn and keep doing you

oh and N3RO here's some more info to frustrate ya

NYC is the best to ever do this hip-hop thang man...it's my opinion....it's a fact...

more legends

the best dj's

the best music

I know your offended right now staring at your computer with ill contempt...but turn your frown upside down man....it's okay man counseling is readily available in your area..check yellowpages.com

Yeah, I'm the stubborn one.


You don't read, Powell, you skim then spew some more ignorant ass crap and proclaim yourself victor. I SAID, Chopped samples don't necessarily mean soulful songs. You're really going to say that Dre had soulful songs? crap that made you want to stand up and clap? crap that made you wanna SING? REALLY? I doubt it dude. And the fact that you have "two golden ages" further validates the idea that you pick and choose criteria after you've got your opinion which is straight backwards. I shoulda known better than respond to this bullshit. Peace.

Lord Emperor N3R0N0N wrote:

That's why all this throwback crap irritates me so much. To say that an artform at it's inception is better than where it is 30 years later is ridiculous.

The throwback tag is a valid tag IMO, because the newer cats learned from the older cats. Sure, they can put their own spin on it, but their preconceived notions about hip-hop have been set in stone from the beginning....that is if they are "old souls" so to speak. I'm not saying they can't break the mold, but they keep an old school aesthetic for the most part.

I hear you on not saying it's "better" though. That is subjective, and "the best" stuff (which is a personal preference) often ends up being artists you grew with over the course of your life. Powell grew up with the old school cats, we grew up with cats 10 years later. Doing it first is notable, but not always the rule as "the best" IMO.

Lord Emperor N3R0N0N wrote:

You're really going to say that Dre had soulful songs? crap that made you want to stand up and clap? crap that made you wanna SING? REALLY? I doubt it dude.

Everybody has a different idea of what "soul" is as well.

I mean, we all know Dre sampled funk music. Funk is a sub-genre of R&B, as is soul. Really, much of it is not far off. I mean, many people considered Curtis Mayfield to mkake "funk" music, but he is also noted for helping pioneer Chicago Soul as well. I don't think it's too far off to say Dre sampled plenty of soulful music in his day.

Dj Red Alert is the one that mentioned that there were two golden ages N3RO

do you even know who Dj Red Alert is?? because if not then it is a moot point

I respect the reasons that he gave for mentioning two...the fact that you've never even heard that there was a possibility that they're could be two means you did NOT know....and that is okay...first give me your Red Alert knowledge before we go any further on that

you seem mad because you don't know and that is no reason to be upset man

THIS IS WHY YOU LEARN man...don't be afraid to learn