Overrated or Underrated Day 1

Outkast-Stankonia

I'll wait to I see some responses but most folks I have been around when discussing it have a pretty accurate rating of it. I have heard all 3 sides of the debate about this one though.

I personally think it's a classic, and the general consensus is that it's a step down from their first 3 albums. so i think it's underrated.

I don't feel its classic but it does have some classic trks on it. I have this one at 4.25-4.5 or so because of the lack of teamwork between the two to me. Most I cats I talk too other than this forum feel the same way or like you said it was a small step down from the first three. So I will say accurate.

Co-sign Kev.

Co-Sign N3RO

Agree with you guys. Pretty abstract album but definitely a solid one. Humble mumble is one of my fav songs from them thats not normally mentioned.

I pretty much co-sign Kev. I don't feel it's classic because it's got skip material on it but it does have some amazing singles like Ms. Jackson and So Fresh So Clean. I'll say accurate.

KJ Styles wrote:

I pretty much co-sign Kev. I don't feel it's classic because it's got skip material on it but it does have some amazing singles like Ms. Jackson and So Fresh So Clean. I'll say accurate.

Alright, i got a question. And this isn't directed at anyone in particualr. It just has a lot to do with something Kj brought up. What is too much skip material? I mean there are albums that are considered classic, but they contain skip material(Stillmatic)? Also Stillmatic isn't on the same level as Illmatic such as Stankonia isn't on the level of their first 3. So where is the disconnect with this album as opposed to a Stillmatic?

It should also be noted that i do consider Stillmatic a classic.

Any album with skip tracks (I make an exception for skits) will not be 5 stars to me.

T. Myers wrote:

KJ Styles wrote:

I pretty much co-sign Kev. I don't feel it's classic because it's got skip material on it but it does have some amazing singles like Ms. Jackson and So Fresh So Clean. I'll say accurate.

Alright, i got a question. And this isn't directed at anyone in particualr. It just has a lot to do with something Kj brought up. What is too much skip material? I mean there are albums that are considered classic, but they contain skip material(Stillmatic)? Also Stillmatic isn't on the same level as Illmatic such as Stankonia isn't on the level of their first 3. So where is the disconnect with this album as opposed to a Stillmatic?

It should also be noted that i do consider Stillmatic a classic.

LOL, why is Nas ALWAYS brought up in debates like these???

But anyway, Stillmatic isn't Illmatic but it's still a classic IMO. People bitch about Braveheart Party, but I remember re-buying Stillmatic after my first copy got scratched up, and it didn't have Braveheart Party on it. So if it wasn't a classic with that track, it certainly is without it.

As for Outkast albums. we would both agree that their first three are classics. Personally, my favorite Outkast album is Aquemini. Most here feel ATLiens is their best but I like the standouts and production on Aquemini more. But I feel both are classics. Southernplayalistic is also a classic. But that album is their 3rd best IMO because Aquemini and ATLiens had doper standouts. That said, all of those are skip free.

Stankonia IMO isn't skip free. Tracks like I'll Call Before I Come, We Love Them Hoes, and Toilet Tisha are skip tracks for me. That's why it falls short of classic status for me. Not to mention that I feel the first three albums have more standouts and as Kev said, you could feel a bit of a disconnect between Dre and Big Boi on that album.

LOL, like i said, Stillmatic is classic to me, but it was an easy example because i have yet to meet anyone who likes Braveheart Party. Do you think Braveheart Party was the only weak track on Stillmatic? Cause truthfully there is another song i skip on occasion besides Braveheart Party.

I just want to know what people see in Stillmatic despite its faults and comparisons to Illmatic that is not present with Stankonia? Was it the fact that Nas was written off because of his previous albums and the fact that Jay was going at him? i mean it felt like Ether and Stillmatic came out of nowhere to knock Jay and hip hop fans on their ass.

I think if I skip more than 3 trks its a rap, no classic status. But at the sametime an album can hold a special space in time in yo life and be considered a personal classic just off that. Even with skip material.

Stillmatic is betta than Stankonia by a good amount because I only skip one song on that album and thats the infamous BHP. On Stankonia I really don't skip any songs but it just has more average trks than their 1st 3 like:

We Luv Deez
Stankonia
I'll Call B4
Snappin & Trappin
Gasoline (beat wise)
Toliet Tisha (luv the message, average delivery)

T. Myers wrote:

LOL, like i said, Stillmatic is classic to me, but it was an easy example because i have yet to meet anyone who likes Braveheart Party. Do you think Braveheart Party was the only weak track on Stillmatic? Cause truthfully there is another song i skip on occasion besides Braveheart Party.

I just want to know what people see in Stillmatic despite its faults and comparisons to Illmatic that is not present with Stankonia? Was it the fact that Nas was written off because of his previous albums and the fact that Jay was going at him? i mean it felt like Ether and Stillmatic came out of nowhere to knock Jay and hip hop fans on their ass.

I occasionally skip Smokin, but I sometimes listen to it so I don't consider it an instant skip track. Braveheart Party is the only true weak track to me. The fact that Nas was written off by many after Nastradamus probably does make people hold Stillmatic in higher regard, but for me I never wrote Nas off as an MC because most MC's have at least one average to below average album in their discography. I just looked at Nastradamus as a misstep, just as The Love Below and Idlewild are missteps for Outkast.

Again, why do all these debates always have to involve Nas? Sometimes I think he's the most criticized MC on this forum and it sucks. I know you don't dislike him Terry, just sayin.....

Stillmatic may not be a consensus classic, but it's clearly a better album than Stankonia IMO. I feel that Stankonia is more comparable to an album like Speakerboxxx than albums like Aquemini, ATLiens, and Southerplayalistic.

LOL! I wasn't trying to call out Nas but stillmatic was the first classic album i could think of with an obvious skip track.

Terry to address your question, i tink classics CAN have skip tracks, and there are albums with no "skip-tracks" that would never be considered 5 stars to me.

Just because there are no skip tracks doesnt mean 5 stars to me because:
a) all the songs may be good/solid but not great
b) even if every song is good, doesnt mean the album broke any new ground or set a new mark in creativity, but was just a fully consistent album but its what you expected from that artist (i.e. many AZ albums fall under this category for me)

NOW, if there ARE a couple skip tracks the album may still be a classic because:
a) the highs of the album are so high that they outweigh the minimal "lows"
b) the album was such a landmark in the genre that it broke new grounds OR pushed the boundaries of creativity to a new level
c) one part of the album may be so great (i.e. lyrics) that it may outweigh parts that may not be so great (i.e. Soul on Ice for me)

all that said, i usually only give out the 5 star rating to albums I CONSIDER TO BE HIP HOP CLASSICS. Personal classics to me always get the 4.75+ rating, i only give a "personal" classic 5 stars if i feel that i think it should truly be a consensus classic (rare)

Stankonia is a classic, and I most people I know feel the same way. I say accurate. It beats the shit out of Stillmatic from all angles. Putting them in the same sentence is a fucking joke.

Kendrick Davis wrote:

Stankonia is a classic, and I most people I know feel the same way. I say accurate. It beats the shit out of Stillmatic from all angles. Putting them in the same sentence is a fucking joke.

You say that because you're a Nas hater, but it's whatever.

And how is it accurate when most people feel that Stankonia is NOT a classic? I haven't seen a 5 star rating for this album anywhere besides individual people on Amazon.

Yeah, i know a lot of people consider Stankonia 4.5 stars or so, but it's not widely regarded as a classic.

Most people say it's a good to great album with a couple of weak tracks. I'd say that's accurate.

KJ Styles wrote:

Kendrick Davis wrote:

Stankonia is a classic, and I most people I know feel the same way. I say accurate. It beats the shit out of Stillmatic from all angles. Putting them in the same sentence is a fucking joke.

You say that because you're a Nas hater, but it's whatever.

And how is it accurate when most people feel that Stankonia is NOT a classic? I haven't seen a 5 star rating for this album anywhere besides individual people on Amazon.

I'm not at all a Nas hater. I'm a big fan of Illmatic, The Lost Tapes, I Am..., Street's Disciple, HHID, It Was Written. I just don't like the other albums, and I think Stillmatic is not a classic at all.

Accurate. Shit is fucking classic.

Kendrick Davis wrote:

KJ Styles wrote:

Kendrick Davis wrote:

Stankonia is a classic, and I most people I know feel the same way. I say accurate. It beats the shit out of Stillmatic from all angles. Putting them in the same sentence is a fucking joke.

You say that because you're a Nas hater, but it's whatever.

And how is it accurate when most people feel that Stankonia is NOT a classic? I haven't seen a 5 star rating for this album anywhere besides individual people on Amazon.

I'm not at all a Nas hater. I'm a big fan of Illmatic, The Lost Tapes, I Am..., Street's Disciple, HHID, It Was Written. I just don't like the other albums, and I think Stillmatic is not a classic at all.

Well I disagree entirely. I feel Stillmatic is his 3rd best album behind Illmatic and It Was Written.

One Mic, Rewind, Rule, Got Yaself A Gun, 2nd Childhood, You're The Man....this joint has mad bangers!!

Kendrick Davis wrote:

Stankonia is a classic, and I most people I know feel the same way. I say accurate. It beats the shit out of Stillmatic from all angles. Putting them in the same sentence is a fucking joke.

HUH????

now this statement is a fuckin joke...

Stillmatic and Stankonia don't even belong in the same universe huh?? LMAO!! umm okay man I see you!

Yeah Stankonia>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Stillmatic

I just voted overrated because a lot fo psuedo outkast/southern fans point to this as the pinnacle to their career when it is clearly not.

Stillmatic is LIGHT YEARS better than Stankonia. One Mic blows everything on Stankonia out of the fucking water, and We Luv Deez Hoes and I'll Call Before I Come are worse tracks than Braveheart Party.

Bunny Man wrote:

Yeah Stankonia>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Stillmatic

Cosign. Stankonia shits all over Stillmatic.

Alan wrote:

Bunny Man wrote:

Yeah Stankonia>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Stillmatic

Cosign. Stankonia shits all over Stillmatic.

Get the fuck outta here with that bullshit. Stillmatic beats Stankonia in every catagory. Lyrics, production, originality, the whole fuckin nine yards.

KJ...

Powell...

Stop it already. lol

Stankonia is better than Stillmatic on every level. The only people that can't see it live north of Jersey and south of Massachusetts.

KJ, can you explain what makes Stillmatic more original...specifically?

"KJ, can you explain what makes Stillmatic more original...specifically?"

Rewind... and mayyyybe One Mic. That's about it.

Shaun wrote:

"KJ, can you explain what makes Stillmatic more original...specifically?"

Rewind... and mayyyybe One Mic. That's about it.

Other than maybe BOB I see nothing original about Stankonia. It's not as good as Stillmatic on ANY level. The only people who feel that way are either Kast fanboys, Nas haters, or both.

Rewind and One Mic were original. Ether was one of the illest dis tracks of all time, and Got Yaself A Gun was the first to use the Sopranos theme song.

Kopasetick wrote:

KJ...

Powell...

Stop it already. lol

Stankonia is better than Stillmatic on every level. The only people that can't see it live north of Jersey and south of Massachusetts.

KJ, can you explain what makes Stillmatic more original...specifically?

See above Norf,

To quote Flava Flav.....ya blind baby, ya blind to the facts!!!

KJ Styles wrote:

Other than maybe BOB I see nothing original about Stankonia. It's not as good as Stillmatic on ANY level. The only people who feel that way are either Kast fanboys, Nas haters, or both.

I own every album released by Nas and Outkast...where does that put me? Very narrow in scope, homeskillet. The only one blind here is...

Oh, and you didn't answer the question. You said Stillmatic is more original. How? Nothing on Stillmatic fucks with Red Velvet let alone Bombs Over Baghdad.

You're telling me Stillmatic (see: typical production save for a few tracks) is more original than an album with the kind of production that you'd never heard before?

That shit don't mix like yay and lukewarm water...

Kopasetick wrote:

KJ Styles wrote:

Other than maybe BOB I see nothing original about Stankonia. It's not as good as Stillmatic on ANY level. The only people who feel that way are either Kast fanboys, Nas haters, or both.

I own every album released by Nas and Outkast...where does that put me? Very narrow in scope, homeskillet. The only one blind here is...

Oh, and you didn't answer the question. You said Stillmatic is more original. How? Nothing on Stillmatic fucks with Red Velvet let alone Bombs Over Baghdad.

You're telling me Stillmatic (see: typical production save for a few tracks) is more original than an album with the kind of production that you'd never heard before?

That shit don't mix like yay and lukewarm water...

Duct tape yo infant daughter

Kopasetick wrote:

KJ Styles wrote:

Other than maybe BOB I see nothing original about Stankonia. It's not as good as Stillmatic on ANY level. The only people who feel that way are either Kast fanboys, Nas haters, or both.

I own every album released by Nas and Outkast...where does that put me? Very narrow in scope, homeskillet. The only one blind here is...

Oh, and you didn't answer the question. You said Stillmatic is more original. How? Nothing on Stillmatic fucks with Red Velvet let alone Bombs Over Baghdad.

You're telling me Stillmatic (see: typical production save for a few tracks) is more original than an album with the kind of production that you'd never heard before?

That shit don't mix like yay and lukewarm water...

One Mic, Rewind, and Rule MURDER anything on Stankonia, and the tracks you named weren't even the best ones.

And the production on ATLiens and Aquemini was far more original than Stankonia.

KJ Styles wrote:

One Mic, Rewind, and Rule MURDER anything on Stankonia, and the tracks you named weren't even the best ones.

That's my point. Nas wasn't fuckin' with the b-level tracks on Stankonia.

Again, north of Jersey, south of Massachusetts. I get it. That's why you can't directly answer.

One Mic and Rewind are the only tracks on the level.

Rule? With Amerie? LMAO Ok... Spaghetti Junction >>> Rule lol

Kopasetick wrote:

KJ...

Powell...

Stop it already. lol

Stankonia is better than Stillmatic on every level. The only people that can't see it live north of Jersey and south of Massachusetts.

KJ, can you explain what makes Stillmatic more original...specifically?

Hey Norf please jump off the map quotes my dude...lol

you honestly think it's only heads in the NYC area that feel that way man?? for real??

then I could say only heads below North Carolina feel that way about Stankonia and that would make absolutely no sense at all man...

Stankonia IMO was a step down for Outkast while Stillmatic for Nas was a step up from the efforts he had previously released other than Illmatic (of course) and maybe It Was Written.....Stillmatic made him relevant again...Stankonia although a very good effort was below those other previous efforts from 'Kast because they set the bar so high for themselves...being so dope actually worked against them if that's possible here.....also it was when Andre really started drifting away from Big Boi almost in preparation for those "masterpieces" that would follow called "Speakerboxx/The Love Below" and "Idlewild"...lol....this album got you ready if you will for what was to follow...

If 'Kast can get back that magic they had on their first 3 efforts then they will be looked at as relevant again!

That's part of the problem though Powell. Stankonis was a step down from Aquemini. ATLiens, and Southernplaya......... Where as Stillmatic was a step up from I Am and Nastradamus. If you're gonna say that Stankonia was a step down from their best effort, you must also say that Stillmatic is a step down from Nas' best effort.

so.... nas made a ton of wack CDs before stillmatic...

Outkast made classics before stankonia...

so stillmatic is better than stankonia...

because stillmatic was the most improved student in class? that sounds like some public school excuse to give out an award...

KJ, Stillmatic is in no way more original than Stankonia stop that nonsense. Its ok if you like the album more, but the originality isnt debatable IMO

T. Myers wrote:

That's part of the problem though Powell. Stankonis was a step down from Aquemini. ATLiens, and Southernplaya......... Where as Stillmatic was a step up from I Am and Nastradamus. If you're gonna say that Stankonia was a step down from their best effort, you must also say that Stillmatic is a step down from Nas' best effort.

IN MY OPINION...I had to put that in caps...the step down from Illmatic to Stillmatic was not as great as the step down from ATLiens (which I believe was their greatest effort) to Stankonia...hence one of the main reasons why I think Stillmatic is a better effort than Stankonia...again IN MY OPINION...not facts fellas but my opinion...I think Stillmatic is a much better effort than Stankonia....

D.Powell wrote:

T. Myers wrote:

That's part of the problem though Powell. Stankonis was a step down from Aquemini. ATLiens, and Southernplaya......... Where as Stillmatic was a step up from I Am and Nastradamus. If you're gonna say that Stankonia was a step down from their best effort, you must also say that Stillmatic is a step down from Nas' best effort.

IN MY OPINION...I had to put that in caps...the step down from Illmatic to Stillmatic was not as great as the step down from ATLiens (which I believe was their greatest effort) to Stankonia...hence one of the main reasons why I think Stillmatic is a better effort than Stankonia...again IN MY OPINION...not facts fellas but my opinion...I think Stillmatic is a much better effort than Stankonia....

That's perfectly acceptable and understandable, but that's not what you said to begin with pops.

Well I'm saying it now junior!

D.Powell wrote:

Well I'm saying it now junior!

lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm loving your avatar by the way. I bought my sister a Run DMC shirt for christmas. She better rock that shirt like their is no tomorrow.

I agree that Stankonia is more original than Stillmatic by a lot. But Stillmatic is the betta album, why?? Lyrically, cohesiveness wise, and subject matter wise it beats Stankonia. Plus Nas has never ever dropped a wack album, get off that.

KRob86 wrote:

I agree that Stankonia is more original than Stillmatic by a lot. But Stillmatic is the betta album, why?? Lyrically, cohesiveness wise, and subject matter wise it beats Stankonia. Plus Nas has never ever dropped a wack album, get off that.

I'm not sure why you fight that so hard. Nastradamus is wack by any measuring stick. I'm sorry, but it is what it is. I will say that I Am gets more hate than it deserves.

Nastradamus was not wack to me, below average yes but st8 wack hell no. I think people don't truly understand wack.

KRob86 wrote:

Nastradamus was not wack to me, below average yes but st8 wack hell no. I think people don't truly understand wack.

IMO that album has only 1 or 2 worthwhile tracks. IMO that makes it wack. How many tracks do you dig on the album?

Nastradamus is wack no matter how you define it - and that's the truth cause Bunny Man said it!

D.Powell wrote:

Hey Norf please jump off the map quotes my dude...lol

Look up the word quote, my dude. I'll jump off the map "quotes" (?) when you jump off my sack, my dude. lol

D.Powell wrote:

Stankonia IMO was a step down for Outkast while Stillmatic for Nas was a step up from the efforts he had previously released other than Illmatic (of course) and maybe It Was Written.....Stillmatic made him relevant again...Stankonia although a very good effort was below those other previous efforts from 'Kast because they set the bar so high for themselves...being so dope actually worked against them if that's possible here.....also it was when Andre really started drifting away from Big Boi almost in preparation for those "masterpieces" that would follow called "Speakerboxx/The Love Below" and "Idlewild"...lol....this album got you ready if you will for what was to follow...

Way to miss the point. You mention that other BS because Stillmatic genuinely needs the help. You deflect like no other, though. And that line of reasoning was nothing short of illogical, my dude. lol

D.Powell wrote:

If 'Kast can get back that magic they had on their first 3 efforts then they will be looked at as relevant again!

Who said anything about their relevance? Is the album dope or not, my dude? lol

Stay focused on the topic. You're a little young for alzheimer's, my dude...