Why do White people listen to hip hop?

Sorry, to bring "race" up again but its not like this place is throbbing with fresh threads. I remember one of the dinosuars from the classic rock forum from Amazon griping that hip hop aims too much angst toward western civilization. Hmmmmm...I must concur that if I was White I may not listen to rap. Even gangster-type music thats not conscience at all takes swipes at western civilization. Ofcourse racism by my definition is completely different than the average White guy who feels the Black Panthers are as bad as he KKK. Listen to those old Geto boys albums they're pretty much on the same level as dead prez. Actually, its hard to find any rap album that doesn't take a swipe at a White person in a line or two. Now if a White rapper was to say anything remotely negative toward Blacks or a 3000 mile away African culture (or even Latinos) Black listeners will be largely put off now matter how dope he is. I ask myself are these lyrics really registering in the minds of White listeners? Is it cause of self-hate? Is the so-called racism towards Whites acceptable?














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Dang! Trotter wrote:

Sorry, to bring "race" up again but its not like this place is throbbing with fresh threads. I remember one of the dinosuars from the classic rock forum from Amazon griping that hip hop aims too much angst toward western civilization. Hmmmmm...I must concur that if I was White I may not listen to rap. Even gangster-type music thats not conscience at all takes swipes at western civilization. Ofcourse racism by my definition is completely different than the average White guy who feels the Black Panthers are as bad as he KKK. Listen to those old Geto boys albums they're pretty much on the same level as dead prez. Actually, its hard to find any rap album that doesn't take a swipe at a White person in a line or two. Now if a White rapper was to say anything remotely negative toward Blacks or a 3000 mile away African culture (or even Latinos) Black listeners will be largely put off now matter how dope he is. I ask myself are these lyrics really registering in the minds of White listeners? Is it cause of self-hate? Is the so-called racism towards Whites acceptable?














?

Yes. No. I don't know what you mean.

I find hip hop to be an interesting art form with a lot of depth. It's enjoyable to listen to, so I listen to it. Problems?

^ i agree, and the whites they take swipes at are poeple who aren't me

i consider myself and all other people just people, not white, black, latino, etc...even th the different races exist i dont just classify ppl like that

Honestly, I think there is a small amount of self hate, at least in my particular case. I was singeled out a few times by friends or friends of my friends who were minorities for being white and "not belonging" and I still have a small amount of contempt for white people, and particularly those who are well off and listen to hip hop or try to indentify with "urban"/"black"/"whatever" culture. While for the most part I appreciate my upbringing for what it's taught me, I do have a small amount of resentment for the people I saw in high school whose mommys and daddys bought them new Toyotas and were bumping BG like they knew him.

Also, the racism thing does bug me with certain artists, and for some reason I give others a pass. It definitely comes down to personal preference. I've never taken what Gravediggaz said about white people literally but some of the shit Dead Prez say really bothers me. I also think that the trivialization of slavery by some artists is fucking ridiculous ("them labels the slaveship/and the rappers the slave"...are you fucking kidding me?).

Bottom line is, I definitely identify with a lot of hip hop, and maybe not all of it, but the mindstate definitely speaks to me as a person who's struggled financially, personally, racially, politically, etc.

I understand why whites listen to hip hop because its rebelous and white teens luv rebelous music, well teens period. I agree with Jeff where I do not like whites that try to 100% act like they know what these rappers are stressing when I know they just like the beat, hook, or trend. I also do not like when whites have an opinion on an album that is mainly and purposely targeted for black people ears only.

I'm white, 33, and have listened to hiphop since 1986. I listen to it because i like it. Pretty simple. When hip hop started, it was more of a happy and party type of music. Then it went to gangsta rap and while i admit that i have no knowledge of that lifestyle, i still liked the music and was curious as to what they had to say. I don't think i need to explain why i like hip hop. I'm sure the gangsta rappers sure don't mind when i buy the albums and put money in their pockets.

And i didn't listen to it because it was rebellious. My love for hiphop started with Run Dmc, The Beastie Boys, LL Cool J, Whodini, Kurtis Blow, Big Daddy Kane, Kool Moe Dee, etc......Like i said, the music just caught my ear and i became obssesed with it.

Kev why dont you like when whites give an opinion on an album targeted to blacks? i can see why from the standpoint of the message and lyrics but if the music, beats, and flow is wack, then its wack...

Would you trust a black dude's opinion on country music?

im speaking strictly on a musical standpoint.

If the country album has good musical vibes then yea whatever, same with a rap album. If everything about the album (beats, etc) is wack except the message then its wack to me and i dont see why thats not an acceptale opinion. Lyrics cant save an album by themselves

im not trying to offend anyone, all im trying to say is a rapper can create a great message with his lyrics but i dont care how good/uplifting the message is, if the beats, music, delivery, flow, etc is wack then dont sugarcoat the album by claiming "oh because they talk about said subject then it gets a pass"

Slang I was really speaking from a lyric standpoint more so than the whole album. If you did not like the beats, flow, hooks, etc etc I can see that. But i'm still i'm going to take it with a grain salt as opposed if it came from a black person.

I feel what Kev is saying, and I co-sign him. A lot of whites have rated albums like Untitled and Let's Get Free low because many of the messages are directed to appeal to blacks. But both of those albums are excellent and white people are the ONLY ones that I've seen underrate those albums after giving them an honest listen. Just like the Boondocks cartoon series, a lot of whites don't get it and underrate it because it was made to appeal to blacks.

It's not that I don't trust or respect a white person's opinion, but when the subject matter is contraversial and is strictly targeted towards blacks, I feel that many of them (not all, but many) don't listen with an open mind and take too many things personally.

It's this simple Slang, KJ gives a rating on a Tech N9ne album. Even though he's just not fond of whatever he's not fond of, and he's talking about other things, are you going to believe those other things because you know he's not giving it a fair chance based on the fact it's Tech N9ne? It's a fair thing for KRob to say. Even though Untitled sucks.

N3R0 wrote:

It's this simple Slang, KJ gives a rating on a Tech N9ne album. Even though he's just not fond of whatever he's not fond of, and he's talking about other things, are you going to believe those other things because you know he's not giving it a fair chance based on the fact it's Tech N9ne? It's a fair thing for KRob to say. Even though Untitled sucks.

Ignorant ass posts like this further prove my point above.

Do you read what I type or just generalize?

N3R0 wrote:

Do you read what I type or just generalize?

I read your ignorant ass post. All it did was generalize ME and further prove my point for me.

Wow, i think some of you are completely missing slang's point. I openly admit that there are albums that black people rank higher due to the subject matter, but that's not really what Slang is trying to say. The components of a dope album must still be present whether it be production, lyrics, sequencing, flow, delivery. The message is only one aspect of it. If the criticism of the album does not center around the subject matter, then the opinion of white people isn't any less valid. I fully understand why Untitled(an album i have at 4.5 stars) would be a classic to a person of color. That ability to speak directly to blacks and minorities gives it that extra edge to push it over the top. However, it's not the subject matter of an album that makes it great or wack.

Terry, the point I was making that was regardless of a person's complaint, because of the subject matter, Kev might be inclined to still not take those criticisms to heart. Even though Slang might be honest with his critique, Kev has every right to be skeptical of that Slang's review.

T. Myers wrote:

Wow, i think some of you are completely missing slang's point. I openly admit that there are albums that black people rank higher due to the subject matter, but that's not really what Slang is trying to say. The components of a dope album must still be present whether it be production, lyrics, sequencing, flow, delivery. The message is only one aspect of it. If the criticism of the album does not center around the subject matter, then the opinion of white people isn't any less valid. I fully understand why Untitled(an album i have at 4.5 stars) would be a classic to a person of color. That ability to speak directly to blacks and minorities gives it that extra edge to push it over the top. However, it's not the subject matter of an album that makes it great or wack.

I understood completely what Slang was saying and I don't necessarily disagree with him. However, I was going off of what Kev was saying and co-signing it. I think much of the criticism towards albums like Untitled and Let's Get Free are because of the subject matter. While both albums are critically acclaimed throughout hip-hop nation, everyone whom I've seen rank them low just so happens to be white and I don't think it's a coincidence. No disrespect to whites, just sayin.

KJ, in all seriousness, don't you think the comparison of getting screwed over by a record label they CHOSE to sign with under terms they AGREED to is a RIDICULOUS comparison to slavery? Aren't they mocking their ancestry?

No, Kev does not have the right to dismiss Slang's opinion of the album if Slang's problem with the album are not subject related. Kev may be more forgiving of weaker spots because the album speaks to him on a personal level, but that does not make Slang's problem with an album any less valid.

I'm saying I understand his skepticism even if Slang's criticism is valid, sir. That's all.

KJ Styles wrote:

I feel what Kev is saying, and I co-sign him. A lot of whites have rated albums like Untitled and Let's Get Free low because many of the messages are directed to appeal to blacks. But both of those albums are excellent and white people are the ONLY ones that I've seen underrate those albums after giving them an honest listen. Just like the Boondocks cartoon series, a lot of whites don't get it and underrate it because it was made to appeal to blacks.

It's not that I don't trust or respect a white person's opinion, but when the subject matter is contraversial and is strictly targeted towards blacks, I feel that many of them (not all, but many) don't listen with an open mind and take too many things personally.

I like Let's Get Free and the Boondocks.

Yeah what white person doesn't love the Boondocks?

I've never watched The Boondocks.

N3R0 wrote:

KJ, in all seriousness, don't you think the comparison of getting screwed over by a record label they CHOSE to sign with under terms they AGREED to is a RIDICULOUS comparison to slavery? Aren't they mocking their ancestry?

Let's Get Free wasn't made because they got screwed by the label. They just brought that up on the album because said label refused to back them because of their subject matter and it was another example about how "the man" holds brothas back.

So equating censorship with forced labor, rape, and murder is perfectly acceptable. Got it.

N3R0 wrote:

So equating censorship with forced labor, rape, and murder is perfectly acceptable. Got it.

You clearly don't get it. Dead Prez is speaking out against ALL forms of racism, minor or major.

For the record, The Boondocks is an awesome show. I think everyone can enjoy that show regardless of your background.

Cise Starr wrote:

For the record, The Boondocks is an awesome show. I think everyone can enjoy that show regardless of your background.

I agree totally. I think it blows Family Guy and South Park out of the water.

No, I understand it perfectly, he juxtaposed a label not backing him with getting owned by another person.

And clearly you don't agree totally about the boondocks, because you just said that white people might not get.

Southpark and Family Guy at their best were much better shows than the Boondocks.

N3R0 wrote:

No, I understand it perfectly, he juxtaposed a label not backing him with getting owned by another person.

And clearly you don't agree totally about the boondocks, because you just said that white people might not get.

All you did was confirm when Kev and I were saying above with that first statement.

As for the second one, I never said that ALL white people don't get the Boondocks, I said many of them don't. I love the show though, and I know a number of whites that like it as well but it doesn't get the universal props it deserves because of the subject matter, that's what I was saying.

KJ Styles wrote:

I feel what Kev is saying, and I co-sign him. A lot of whites have rated albums like Untitled and Let's Get Free low because many of the messages are directed to appeal to blacks. But both of those albums are excellent and white people are the ONLY ones that I've seen underrate those albums after giving them an honest listen. Just like the Boondocks cartoon series, a lot of whites don't get it and underrate it because it was made to appeal to blacks.

It's not that I don't trust or respect a white person's opinion, but when the subject matter is contraversial and is strictly targeted towards blacks, I feel that many of them (not all, but many) don't listen with an open mind and take too many things personally.

Cise Starr wrote:
For the record, The Boondocks is an awesome show. I think everyone can enjoy that show regardless of your background.


I agree totally. I think it blows Family Guy and South Park out of the water.

Just for the record.

I enjoy all 3 shows. That being said, I enjoy South Park the most. Watched every episode.

And I confirmed nothing. I said they're outlandish hypocrites. But you wouldn't be able to see the difference.

Cise Starr wrote:

I enjoy all 3 shows. That being said, I enjoy South Park the most. Watched every episode.

I haven't watched Southpark in a few years, but there was a time I watched every week religiously and their satire was 1000% on point... can't say that for FG or BD....

Saint Killa wrote:

Southpark and Family Guy at their best were much better shows than the Boondocks.

South Park at it's best was on par with the Boondocks.

While I like Family Guy, the Boondocks has always been better IMO.

N3R0 wrote:

KJ Styles wrote:

I feel what Kev is saying, and I co-sign him. A lot of whites have rated albums like Untitled and Let's Get Free low because many of the messages are directed to appeal to blacks. But both of those albums are excellent and white people are the ONLY ones that I've seen underrate those albums after giving them an honest listen. Just like the Boondocks cartoon series, a lot of whites don't get it and underrate it because it was made to appeal to blacks.

It's not that I don't trust or respect a white person's opinion, but when the subject matter is contraversial and is strictly targeted towards blacks, I feel that many of them (not all, but many) don't listen with an open mind and take too many things personally.

Cise Starr wrote:
For the record, The Boondocks is an awesome show. I think everyone can enjoy that show regardless of your background.


I agree totally. I think it blows Family Guy and South Park out of the water.

Just for the record.

I said A LOT OF, not ALL!! Jackass!!

Saint Killa wrote:

I haven't watched Southpark in a few years, but there was a time I watched every week religiously and their satire was 1000% on point... can't say that for FG or BD....

Same here man. The myriad of characters in SP makes it such a quality show.

At this site you can catch up with any episode you missed.
http://www.southparkstudios.com/

I like FG the least out of the 3.

KJ Styles wrote:

Saint Killa wrote:

Southpark and Family Guy at their best were much better shows than the Boondocks.

South Park at it's best was on par with the Boondocks.

While I like Family Guy, the Boondocks has always been better IMO.

No, Southpark is much better than Boondocks in its brighter moments, and if you can't admit that you are a black reverse racist blinded by your hate of the turtles.

KJ Styles wrote:

N3R0 wrote:

KJ Styles wrote:

I feel what Kev is saying, and I co-sign him. A lot of whites have rated albums like Untitled and Let's Get Free low because many of the messages are directed to appeal to blacks. But both of those albums are excellent and white people are the ONLY ones that I've seen underrate those albums after giving them an honest listen. Just like the Boondocks cartoon series, a lot of whites don't get it and underrate it because it was made to appeal to blacks.

It's not that I don't trust or respect a white person's opinion, but when the subject matter is contraversial and is strictly targeted towards blacks, I feel that many of them (not all, but many) don't listen with an open mind and take too many things personally.

Cise Starr wrote:
For the record, The Boondocks is an awesome show. I think everyone can enjoy that show regardless of your background.


I agree totally. I think it blows Family Guy and South Park out of the water.

Just for the record.

I said A LOT OF, not ALL!! Jackass!!

Right, you said A LOT of people don't get it, then you said it can be enjoyed by everyone. Jackass.

Saint Killa wrote:

KJ Styles wrote:

Saint Killa wrote:

Southpark and Family Guy at their best were much better shows than the Boondocks.

South Park at it's best was on par with the Boondocks.

While I like Family Guy, the Boondocks has always been better IMO.

No, Southpark is much better than Boondocks in its brighter moments, and if you can't admit that you are a black reverse racist blinded by your hate of the turtles.

First of all I'm not a fucking racist, I hate everyone equally regardless of color.

Secondly, you just admitted below that you don't watch the Boondocks like that, so how can you say with your limited watching experience that it's so much better?

N3R0 wrote:

KJ Styles wrote:

N3R0 wrote:

KJ Styles wrote:

I feel what Kev is saying, and I co-sign him. A lot of whites have rated albums like Untitled and Let's Get Free low because many of the messages are directed to appeal to blacks. But both of those albums are excellent and white people are the ONLY ones that I've seen underrate those albums after giving them an honest listen. Just like the Boondocks cartoon series, a lot of whites don't get it and underrate it because it was made to appeal to blacks.

It's not that I don't trust or respect a white person's opinion, but when the subject matter is contraversial and is strictly targeted towards blacks, I feel that many of them (not all, but many) don't listen with an open mind and take too many things personally.

Cise Starr wrote:
For the record, The Boondocks is an awesome show. I think everyone can enjoy that show regardless of your background.


I agree totally. I think it blows Family Guy and South Park out of the water.

Just for the record.

I said A LOT OF, not ALL!! Jackass!!

Right, you said A LOT of people don't get it, then you said it can be enjoyed by everyone. Jackass.

It CAN BE if given a chance, which everyone hasn't done.

Hmmm. That's reasonable I guess. But by the logic, I gave Untitled a chance and now I don't like it. How do you explain that?

KJ Styles wrote:

Saint Killa wrote:

KJ Styles wrote:

Saint Killa wrote:

Southpark and Family Guy at their best were much better shows than the Boondocks.

South Park at it's best was on par with the Boondocks.

While I like Family Guy, the Boondocks has always been better IMO.

No, Southpark is much better than Boondocks in its brighter moments, and if you can't admit that you are a black reverse racist blinded by your hate of the turtles.

First of all I'm not a fucking racist, I hate everyone equally regardless of color.

Secondly, you just admitted below that you don't watch the Boondocks like that, so how can you say with your limited watching experience that it's so much better?

I own the first season on DVD and will be getting the second soon.. your move Granddragon Styles

T. Myers wrote:

Wow, i think some of you are completely missing slang's point. I openly admit that there are albums that black people rank higher due to the subject matter, but that's not really what Slang is trying to say. The components of a dope album must still be present whether it be production, lyrics, sequencing, flow, delivery. The message is only one aspect of it. If the criticism of the album does not center around the subject matter, then the opinion of white people isn't any less valid. I fully understand why Untitled(an album i have at 4.5 stars) would be a classic to a person of color. That ability to speak directly to blacks and minorities gives it that extra edge to push it over the top. However, it's not the subject matter of an album that makes it great or wack.

I find that the rap music I grew up on and have come to prefer and love pretty much boils down to a personal connection that I'd be less likely to take outside (see: white) input on. The key phrase here being "personal connection". When Ghostface dropped "All That I Got Is You", that shit spoke to me directly due to shared experiences. If you aren't sharing the experiences, in a way, your opinion is less valid because you lack a certain perspective and your viewpoint becomes strictly analytical. Some will take that as me saying a less informed opinion is worthless. It's not. It's just less informed. The prevailing viewpoint is that you're on the outside looking in. And, for the most part...you are. There's a disconnect there, but no one wants to address the "elephant in the room". Goodie Mob came to my high school back in '96. Cee-Lo and Gipp ciphered with a few of us. They told us to stay out of trouble and get that education. They were like uncles or distant cousins and were genuine when talking to us. In short, these guys we all love come from our hoods, our families, our backgrounds. Why should I take an outside opinion when it comes to something that close to me and mine? Especially when that opinion lacks any real experience in dealing with the things I know and been through? Trying to lay parameters and rules for something I grew up with in my basement, neighborhood, or family? You must be out of your goddamn mind. We already have our rules and parameters. Keep that over there. I even see it happen around here on the forum quite a bit.

At the end of the day, rap will be assimilated by whites and turned into something they will claim as their own just like everything else they get ahold of. It starts out with shit like the Prefuse 73's and El-P's and Atmosphere's and what not. That will be deemed "the" hip hop shit and they will be looked at as the rap gods and the shit I know and love will be pushed to the side. I already see it being put in motion. Some of that stuff is cool, but it's devoid of soul. Just sayin'. I'll be teaching my seeds about the real shit, though.

No offense. I'm just looking at the track record with jazz, blues, rock, etc (They tried to take funk too, but that required too much soul. lol) and I'm taking an active approach.

Take it how ya wanna...

Oh, and blacks are minorities too, Terry... lol

Kopasetick wrote:

T. Myers wrote:

Wow, i think some of you are completely missing slang's point. I openly admit that there are albums that black people rank higher due to the subject matter, but that's not really what Slang is trying to say. The components of a dope album must still be present whether it be production, lyrics, sequencing, flow, delivery. The message is only one aspect of it. If the criticism of the album does not center around the subject matter, then the opinion of white people isn't any less valid. I fully understand why Untitled(an album i have at 4.5 stars) would be a classic to a person of color. That ability to speak directly to blacks and minorities gives it that extra edge to push it over the top. However, it's not the subject matter of an album that makes it great or wack.

I find that the rap music I grew up on and have come to prefer and love pretty much boils down to a personal connection that I'd be less likely to take outside (see: white) input on. The key phrase here being "personal connection". When Ghostface dropped "All That I Got Is You", that shit spoke to me directly due to shared experiences. If you aren't sharing the experiences, in a way, your opinion is less valid because you lack a certain perspective and your viewpoint becomes strictly analytical. Some will take that as me saying a less informed opinion is worthless. It's not. It's just less informed. The prevailing viewpoint is that you're on the outside looking in. And, for the most part...you are. There's a disconnect there, but no one wants to address the "elephant in the room". Goodie Mob came to my high school back in '96. Cee-Lo and Gipp ciphered with a few of us. They told us to stay out of trouble and get that education. They were like uncles or distant cousins and were genuine when talking to us. In short, these guys we all love come from our hoods, our families, our backgrounds. Why should I take an outside opinion when it comes to something that close to me and mine? Especially when that opinion lacks any real experience in dealing with the things I know and been through? Trying to lay parameters and rules for something I grew up with in my basement, neighborhood, or family? You must be out of your goddamn mind. We already have our rules and parameters. Keep that over there. I even see it happen around here on the forum quite a bit.

At the end of the day, rap will be assimilated by whites and turned into something they will claim as their own just like everything else they get ahold of. It starts out with shit like the Prefuse 73's and El-P's and Atmosphere's and what not. That will be deemed "the" hip hop shit and they will be looked at as the rap gods and the shit I know and love will be pushed to the side. I already see it being put in motion. Some of that stuff is cool, but it's devoid of soul. Just sayin'. I'll be teaching my seeds about the real shit, though.

No offense. I'm just looking at the track record with jazz, blues, rock, etc (They tried to take funk too, but that required too much soul. lol) and I'm taking an active approach.

Take it how ya wanna...

Oh, and blacks are minorities too, Terry... lol

A few points here, Norf...

While I don't disagree with your post, I'd just like to share my thoughts here.

I think rap is too segregated right now to be over-taken by white people. If anything, the void will only grow and the El-P's and Prefuse 73's will continue to be enjoyed by white people while other artists will continue to have a black fanbase. Unlike the times of Blue, Jazz, and Rock N Roll, we have the internet now, and minority voices are easier heard and also, indie music can be put on the same stage as it were with mainstream music. ALSO, another HUGE reason this probably won't happen is that in less than a century white people will BECOME a minority in the US. This will have a huge impact on culture (hopefully) and any such moving around of roots of music and whatnot will become all the more difficult.

Slug is actually black. Just thought I'd pass that along.