Would Gangstarr Have Been As Dope With Any Other Emcee?

I know with Guru's passing it's a little harder to have a conversation about the man without thinking about him being gone, but bumping the Gangstarr catalog again made me realize that to an extent Guru was right if he ever got upset about his career not flourishing without Premier.

Yes, Premier is a dope producer, one of the top 5 ever or even the top guy to do it, but I don't think Guru was ever given nearly as much credit for the emcee that he was. The only real complaint I think anyone could lodge against him is his monotone voice. He had a dope flow, dope lyrics, dope delivery, etc. Even with his monotone, his voice was such that you always knew Guru when he was on the mic.

He certainly had the skills to be successful without Premier, his Jazzamatazz series showed that. I do think Solar is a fucking punk bitch whose production is average at best, and I do think Guru's direction while on 7 Grand records was a little more water downed than his Gangstarr material, but the man still dropped some classic songs on 7 Grand.

I am no way gonna support anything that will go to punk ass Solar, but I'm just wondering if maybe fans didn't show enough love and support to Guru as an emcee after he split from Premier?

Well, the answer to your question is yes and no. Premier could not plug any mc into the equation and have it be as dope as it was with Guru. I'm not in the mood to speak ill of the dead, but Guru's lyrics were not great. The were above average at best. His voice is a hate or love type of thing too. His flow and delivery were on point though. The most important thing would be for Premier and the MC to have the chemistry that Premier and Guru had. Jeru had it, and i prefer his album with Premier over most Gangstarr albums. Royce has the chemistry too, but i doubt we will ever see that project so it's probably a moot point.

Well, I guess no one wants to discuss a legend?

I just don't see the appeal of a Jeru, give me Guru over him any day. I don't think Guru gets enough credit for his lyrics, and I think it goes more than just chemistry. Guru lyrics had a way of fitting into Primo beats and making hits that were intelligent as well as commercial, if that makes any sense. I do admit he wasn't the most lyrical and his verses were simpler than others, but I think in that simplicity was a lot of his appeal.

I really like Guru lyrics and mos def his subject matter. He was an average emcee overall but showed above average-good lyricism here and there.

Gangstarr as a group is legendary but Guru the rapper may not be. IMO all his great moments was with the grp and 55% of it was because of the Premo beats. I respect his Jazzmataz series but he still was the same ole Guru just rappin over jazzy beats. Its not like he reinvented himself or made a whole new lane for his solo career like Face and Cube did.

Gangstarr would not have been as dope as they were with any other emcee except Guru IMO and thats because of their chemistry together....Preemo was the main reason for their success though kinda like Pete is the main reason for Pete and CL's success..but I don't think anyone spit better over Pete's beats than CL...their chemistry was ridiculous...

so Gangstarr was basically Guru staying in his own personal lane and being very successful doing that...


R.I.P. Guru!

Also I co-sign what Kev said about Guru not reinventing himself with the Jazzmatazz series....Guru's greatest work by far was Gangstarr!

Southern Rap Porn wrote:

Well, I guess no one wants to discuss a legend?

I just don't see the appeal of a Jeru, give me Guru over him any day. I don't think Guru gets enough credit for his lyrics, and I think it goes more than just chemistry. Guru lyrics had a way of fitting into Primo beats and making hits that were intelligent as well as commercial, if that makes any sense. I do admit he wasn't the most lyrical and his verses were simpler than others, but I think in that simplicity was a lot of his appeal.

cosign completely, dude is seriously underrated. Guru's voice sometimes made Primo's beats. The combination of the monotone and certain beats just made everything sound better. And the lyrics strangely matched the vibe of the beats very well too.

Slang Editorial wrote:

Southern Rap Porn wrote:

Well, I guess no one wants to discuss a legend?

I just don't see the appeal of a Jeru, give me Guru over him any day. I don't think Guru gets enough credit for his lyrics, and I think it goes more than just chemistry. Guru lyrics had a way of fitting into Primo beats and making hits that were intelligent as well as commercial, if that makes any sense. I do admit he wasn't the most lyrical and his verses were simpler than others, but I think in that simplicity was a lot of his appeal.

cosign completely, dude is seriously underrated. Guru's voice sometimes made Primo's beats. The combination of the monotone and certain beats just made everything sound better. And the lyrics strangely matched the vibe of the beats very well too.

Cosign as well. I honestly think the success of Gang Starr was 50/50 between Guru and Premier, and I'm more of a beats guy. I also think he was pretty lyrical. Definitely more lyrical than he gets credit for. Better than Biggie, Pac, etc.

halfsharkalligatorhalfman wrote:

Slang Editorial wrote:

Southern Rap Porn wrote:

Well, I guess no one wants to discuss a legend?

I just don't see the appeal of a Jeru, give me Guru over him any day. I don't think Guru gets enough credit for his lyrics, and I think it goes more than just chemistry. Guru lyrics had a way of fitting into Primo beats and making hits that were intelligent as well as commercial, if that makes any sense. I do admit he wasn't the most lyrical and his verses were simpler than others, but I think in that simplicity was a lot of his appeal.

cosign completely, dude is seriously underrated. Guru's voice sometimes made Primo's beats. The combination of the monotone and certain beats just made everything sound better. And the lyrics strangely matched the vibe of the beats very well too.

Cosign as well. I honestly think the success of Gang Starr was 50/50 between Guru and Premier, and I'm more of a beats guy. I also think he was pretty lyrical. Definitely more lyrical than he gets credit for. Better than Biggie, Pac, etc.

No

It's really hard to say. Premo is a great producer capable of making any MC sound great (see Group Home). A lot of people underrated Guru because of his monotone style, but over those Premo beats he sounded awesome. Premo's ability to make stars out of virtually anyone makes him the GOAT producer IMO.

I'm not gonna say that Gangstarr would have been better with ANY other MC, but I'm sure he would have made magic with someone on the same level as Guru or better. Jeru's first two albums are prime examples.

And to Halfshark, as much as I respected Guru, he was NOT better than Biggie or Pac. Either of those guys with Premo producing every track would have been unstoppable.

Southern Rap Porn wrote:

I know with Guru's passing it's a little harder to have a conversation about the man without thinking about him being gone, but bumping the Gangstarr catalog again made me realize that to an extent Guru was right if he ever got upset about his career not flourishing without Premier.

Yes, Premier is a dope producer, one of the top 5 ever or even the top guy to do it, but I don't think Guru was ever given nearly as much credit for the emcee that he was. The only real complaint I think anyone could lodge against him is his monotone voice. He had a dope flow, dope lyrics, dope delivery, etc. Even with his monotone, his voice was such that you always knew Guru when he was on the mic.

He certainly had the skills to be successful without Premier, his Jazzamatazz series showed that. I do think Solar is a fucking punk bitch whose production is average at best, and I do think Guru's direction while on 7 Grand records was a little more water downed than his Gangstarr material, but the man still dropped some classic songs on 7 Grand.

I am no way gonna support anything that will go to punk ass Solar, but I'm just wondering if maybe fans didn't show enough love and support to Guru as an emcee after he split from Premier?

I completely agree.

I think any duo including DJ Premier would have been worthwhile, but I have doubts that they would've been as successful. Guru was never carried by Premier IMO. I've always felt he was underrated.

Yeah, I think people here seriously overrate people like Group Home - sure the beats are fire from Primo - but I don't think much of their music was memorable... Gang Starr on the other hand made timeless classics.

Southern Rap Porn wrote:

Yeah, I think people here seriously overrate people like Group Home - sure the beats are fire from Primo - but I don't think much of their music was memorable... Gang Starr on the other hand made timeless classics.

I agree with what you said about Gangstarr, but in the case of Group Home I don't think people really overrate them. Most people (myself included) see them as average MC's that just sounded doper over Premo beats. Supastar is the only song by Group Home that one could even make a case for being a classic tune.

Southern Rap Porn wrote:

Yeah, I think people here seriously overrate people like Group Home - sure the beats are fire from Primo - but I don't think much of their music was memorable... Gang Starr on the other hand made timeless classics.

Agreed. When I'm listening to Premier beats, it's usually with Guru over them. Doesn't get much better as far as replay value/longevity goes IMO.

WHOA...Guru is a legend but Halfy let's keep Biggie and Pac out of it lyrically man.....especially Biggie because that's just not fair to Guru...Pac lyrically I think was a little bit better than Guru as well but it wasn't as pronounced as Biggie was....

all three are legends though and may all 3 R.I.P.

Damn man hip-hop is losing to many legends!

D.Powell wrote:

WHOA...Guru is a legend but Halfy let's keep Biggie and Pac out of it lyrically man.....especially Biggie because that's just not fair to Guru...Pac lyrically I think was a little bit better than Guru as welll but it wasn't as pronounced as Biggie was....

all three are legends though and may all 3 R.I.P.

Damn man hip-hop is losing to many legends!

Agreed, and on a slightly different note. The lack of media coverage regarding Guru's death really pisses me off! The radio and music video stations should have been playing Gangstarr repeatedly, but they really didn't and that fuckin sucks!!

KJ Styles wrote:

D.Powell wrote:

WHOA...Guru is a legend but Halfy let's keep Biggie and Pac out of it lyrically man.....especially Biggie because that's just not fair to Guru...Pac lyrically I think was a little bit better than Guru as welll but it wasn't as pronounced as Biggie was....

all three are legends though and may all 3 R.I.P.

Damn man hip-hop is losing to many legends!

Agreed, and on a slightly different note. The lack of media coverage regarding Guru's death really pisses me off! The radio and music video stations should have been playing Gangstarr repeatedly, but they really didn't and that fuckin sucks!!

Well, it's hard to make money off of a lowkey MC like Guru, and it's hard to sensationalize someone dying of natural causes. Those in the know realize we lost a great member of the hip hop community.

Other rap stars have died at the height of their career as well, which makes another difference.

My "lyrical rankings"

Guru/Pac




















Biggie

^^^^Ignorance is bliss

KJ Styles wrote:

^^^^Ignorance is bliss

Self-description at it's best. Plus, owning the catalog of all 3 emcees mentioned makes me the furthest from "ignorant" - learn the definition of the word.

T. Myers wrote:

KJ Styles wrote:

D.Powell wrote:

WHOA...Guru is a legend but Halfy let's keep Biggie and Pac out of it lyrically man.....especially Biggie because that's just not fair to Guru...Pac lyrically I think was a little bit better than Guru as welll but it wasn't as pronounced as Biggie was....

all three are legends though and may all 3 R.I.P.

Damn man hip-hop is losing to many legends!

Agreed, and on a slightly different note. The lack of media coverage regarding Guru's death really pisses me off! The radio and music video stations should have been playing Gangstarr repeatedly, but they really didn't and that fuckin sucks!!

Well, it's hard to make money off of a lowkey MC like Guru, and it's hard to sensationalize someone dying of natural causes. Those in the know realize we lost a great member of the hip hop community.

It's not about making money though, it's about giving a tribute to a hip-hop legend. It doesn't matter how he passed away. The man is a legend and deserved to be more than just a footnote by these wack ass media outlets. I miss the days of Yo MTV Raps and Rap City, they would have given him a proper tribute. Only Hot 97 (during the old school at noon the day after he passed) and Shade 45 gave the man any type of tribute from what I heard. I think he deserved more respect that that.

KJ Styles wrote:

T. Myers wrote:

KJ Styles wrote:

D.Powell wrote:

WHOA...Guru is a legend but Halfy let's keep Biggie and Pac out of it lyrically man.....especially Biggie because that's just not fair to Guru...Pac lyrically I think was a little bit better than Guru as welll but it wasn't as pronounced as Biggie was....

all three are legends though and may all 3 R.I.P.

Damn man hip-hop is losing to many legends!

Agreed, and on a slightly different note. The lack of media coverage regarding Guru's death really pisses me off! The radio and music video stations should have been playing Gangstarr repeatedly, but they really didn't and that fuckin sucks!!

Well, it's hard to make money off of a lowkey MC like Guru, and it's hard to sensationalize someone dying of natural causes. Those in the know realize we lost a great member of the hip hop community.

It's not about making money though, it's about giving a tribute to a hip-hop legend. It doesn't matter how he passed away. The man is a legend and deserved to be more than just a footnote by these wack ass media outlets. I miss the days of Yo MTV Raps and Rap City, they would have given him a proper tribute. Only Hot 97 (during the old school at noon the day after he passed) and Shade 45 gave the man any type of tribute from what I heard. I think he deserved more respect that that.

I agree that he deserved better, but media is big business. Unfortunately there was no money to be made, and like SRP said, he wasn't in his prime like Biggie and Pac

No. The question is would Pete Rock & CL Smooth would have been doper with any other emcee

Dang! Trotter wrote:

No. The question is would Pete Rock & CL Smooth would have been doper with any other emcee

I'd say no. Granted, Pete would be dope with someone else but I'm glad he teamed with CL because Mecca and The Soul Brother is one of the greatest albums of all time, and All Souled Out and The Main Ingredient are excellent as well.

I feel that the importance here is the chemistry between the producer and the artist. Obviously, Premier's beats are going to get more credit than Guru's lyrics but when you are listening to Daily Operation, Moment Of Truth, etc the chemistry between the 2 comes above the beats and the MC, IMO. Pete Rock made great beats and some may even say CL isn't the best MC but you can't deny the chemistry between producer and MC. Both Pete Rock & CL Smooth full length CDs are classics and so is the majority of the Gang Starr catalog.

But we must take into consideration when we 1st heard these artists they were with Premier and Pete Rock. Its not like prior we had nothing to compare it too. So is there a chemistry because basically it had no choice but to be one?

KRob86 wrote:

But we must take into consideration when we 1st heard these artists they were with Premier and Pete Rock. Its not like prior we had nothing to compare it too. So is there a chemistry because basically it had no choice but to be one?

I can see the point you are trying to make, but chemistry doesn't work that way. If a rapper does fuse with a producer - you can tell even if that is the first or only you ever heard them spit on. If they had no chemistry there would never have been a second GS album.

KJ Styles wrote:

Dang! Trotter wrote:

No. The question is would Pete Rock & CL Smooth would have been doper with any other emcee

I'd say no. Granted, Pete would be dope with someone else but I'm glad he teamed with CL because Mecca and The Soul Brother is one of the greatest albums of all time, and All Souled Out and The Main Ingredient are excellent as well.

If you read closely, he's not talking about replacing CL. He's asking if they would be better with another mc on their team. I think it's an interesting question.

Yes, considering I do not hold CL Smooth anywhere near as high as I do Guru I think this is a possibility. I think their relatively short time as a duo plays into it. That said, it's hard to imagine any other emcee on TROY.

All yall said it all. I'm going to say know. Guru and Primo's chemistry was unmistakable.

Fusion is definitely the right word.