Reasonable Doubt vs. The Blueprint

N3R0N0N Of 0nslaught3r wrote:

Red wrote:

I dumb down for my audience
And double my dollars
They criticize me for it
Yet they all yell "Holla"
If skills sold
Truth be told
I'd probably be
Lyrically
Talib Kweli
Truthfully
I wanna rhyme like Common Sense
(But i did five Mil)
I ain't been rhymin like Common since
When your sense got that much in common
And you been hustlin since
Your inception
Fuck perception
Go with what makes sense

The last line is supposed to be "cents".

It's a double entendre, so it's both

Well I like said to me its not selling out. Its almost a oxymoran because you are a sell out if you dumb down your music for mass appeal but at the sametime you are on a record label and the point is to get mass appeal for sales and gaining fans.

To me a sellout is someone who switched their whole style period just for fame. I mean like if Jay comes out with a dance song and is rappping like Gucci Mane or something than I would consider that sell out. If Immortal Tech its a major deal and starts rapping about females dropping it like its hot to me that is a sell out. But if Tech drops a song with a hot beat decent hook not real political but still dropping dope lines thats is cool. He will have to dumb down his lyrics for his singles until he reaches a certain level. Jay does not dumb down his lyrics for entire albums but we all know like he said i'm sure he does for singles especially and certain trks on the album. Cool with me.

Good point. Jay was all about bucks since he touched a mic.

It would not be cool if Tech dropped his agenda for mass appeal. But, if he toned it down a bit to reach more listeners, that's a different story.

Kid Joe wrote:

Right. But there are fans who just want to hear an artist's genuine expressions. Those are the fans that Mos claims.

You may not like the final product, but there's respect for the process -the integrity. That's something Jay will never have. You can't buy that.

I agree man, i always want to hear an artist's genuine expressions, that's why i bought all of Mos albums and only a few from Jay, i was just saying it doesn't necessarily equal good music. Once you sellout you lose that integrity but you can gain success.

If i was an artist though i would sellout in a second, i would rather be living in a castle somewhere with beyonce than in a tent in my parents backyard getting pats on the back from internet nerds

I'm glad some artists prioritize their legacy over the dollar. Furthermore, they set good examples, socially. The world would be a better place if more people were more interested in being responsible than in being rich.

I mean, does anyone need to be as rich as Jay-Z? I'm sure the Kweli family has all their needs being met.

Kid Joe wrote:

I'm glad some artists prioritize their legacy over the dollar. Furthermore, they set good examples, socially. The world would be a better place if more people were more interested in being responsible than in being rich.

I mean, does anyone need to be as rich as Jay-Z? I'm sure the Kweli family has all their needs being met.

And thats the balance exactly. We need artist like K-Rino who refuse to play the label game but we also need artist like Jay who plays it well. Jay is a lyricists who made it to the top of the food chain talkin shit and still reppin for hip hop. What more can I say?

Jason, a double entendre means that one particular word is meant, while another could be used if some one is clever enough to pick up on the second meaning. HOWEVER, especially in hip hop, if you're rhyming it's pretty important on which word you use, because in this instance, Jay already rhymed the word "sense".

Also, if the point you're arguing is that Jay didn't sell out because he never had integrity to begin with (only caring about money)...I don't have anything to say to you. Basically you're saying that Jay isn't an artist but strictly a business man who found a talent within himself and doesn't give a shit about the music or art he puts out just making money. Ridiculous. Jay-Z has cared about the art through varying degrees in his career, this much is obvious. But everytime he shits out a record like the ones found on Vol 1 or BP2, it's obvious dude has his priorities elsewhere at certain points. If you can't see that, you're blind.

OR if your point is that it's okay to dumb your shit down to get to a specific level and that doesn't make you less of an artist, again, nothing to be said. I don't recall Rakim, KRS One, Eminem, Black Thought, etc etc etc dumbing their shit down period.

[quote="N3R0N0N Of 0nslaught3r"]Jason, a double entendre means that one particular word is meant, while another could be used if some one is clever enough to pick up on the second meaning. HOWEVER, especially in hip hop, if you're rhyming it's pretty important on which word you use, because in this instance, Jay already rhymed the word "sense".

Also, if the point you're arguing is that Jay didn't sell out because he never had integrity to begin with (only caring about money)...I don't have anything to say to you. Basically you're saying that Jay isn't an artist but strictly a business man who found a talent within himself and doesn't give a shit about the music or art he puts out just making money. Ridiculous. Jay-Z has cared about the art through varying degrees in his career, this much is obvious. But everytime he shits out a record like the ones found on Vol 1 or BP2, it's obvious dude has his priorities elsewhere at certain points. If you can't see that, you're blind.

OR if your point is that it's okay to dumb your shit down to get to a specific level and that doesn't make you less of an artist, again, nothing to be said. I don't recall Rakim, KRS One, Eminem, Black Thought, etc etc etc dumbing their shit down period.[/quote

LOL...Em and Rakim has dumbed their shit down before. Every artist on a major label has. GTFOH...lol.

Really? Em has done silly shit since Infinite. And Rakim...where? If you're going to argue a point...you should really have a point other than just disagreeing.

I have serious doubts about your hip hop knowledge in general. Sure, you listen to a lot of music, but the way you talk about lyricism, flow, etc...I don't think you have the slightest clue what you're talking about 90% of the time.

LOL

N3R0N0N Of 0nslaught3r wrote:

Really? Em has done silly shit since Infinite. And Rakim...where? If you're going to argue a point...you should really have a point other than just disagreeing.

I have serious doubts about your hip hop knowledge in general. Sure, you listen to a lot of music, but the way you talk about lyricism, flow, etc...I don't think you have the slightest clue what you're talking about 90% of the time.

And this is coming from you really? A scared fat nerd in Iowa?....lol. A dude who learned about hip hop from the internet and wikipedia. And have you really listened to yourself when you rap?...lol. I mean you are a alien on the planet of hip hop who is trying his best to fit in. Everyone finds you funny and thinks you are as sqaure as a pizza box. Don't get your big panties in a wad because I called you out on that dumb ass statement about Em never dumbing it down.

Have you heard Rakim's Paid In Full? I mentioned that earlier, it was a pretty big single for him. Very easy going lyrics if you ask me. All these rap cats have dumbed their shit down to a degree.

N3R0N0N Of 0nslaught3r wrote:

Jason, a double entendre means that one particular word is meant, while another could be used if some one is clever enough to pick up on the second meaning. HOWEVER, especially in hip hop, if you're rhyming it's pretty important on which word you use, because in this instance, Jay already rhymed the word "sense".

There's no rule that says you can't use a word twice, and the phrase is clearly a double entendre, as it can be interpreted either way, and it can be typed out either way, since the words are homophonic.

Kev, C'Mon SON, GTFOH with that bullshit!! Rakim never dumbed down his lyrics. Not that I have a problem with MC's doing that as long as they still sound dope. But Rakim NEVER in his career did that. He was ahead of his time.

The lyrics on "Paid In Full" ARE clearly less complex than the rest of the album.

Let's not forget the timeline/chronological aspect. Those lyrics were above and beyond anything before '87...

"Let's not forget the timeline/chronological aspect. Those lyrics were above and beyond anything before '87..."

With what Kev is saying, that Rakim dumbed down his lyrics for the song, the issue is what they are relative to Rakim's other lyrics of the same period.

The lyrics on the song are less complex, though "Paid In Full" wasn't the album's lead single, it was the last, so I don't know if the motivation was to make a hit by being more simple and straightforward lyrically.

Jason wrote:

N3R0N0N Of 0nslaught3r wrote:

Jason, a double entendre means that one particular word is meant, while another could be used if some one is clever enough to pick up on the second meaning. HOWEVER, especially in hip hop, if you're rhyming it's pretty important on which word you use, because in this instance, Jay already rhymed the word "sense".

There's no rule that says you can't use a word twice, and the phrase is clearly a double entendre, as it can be interpreted either way, and it can be typed out either way, since the words are homophonic.

The impact of the double entendre is lessened by making it seem like he's just repeating a word. If you type the word "cents" it's more obvious, but if you go with "sense" it just looks like he's a lazy rapper instead of a clever one. Most rappers have self-enforced rules about repeating words and other such things.

"Most rappers have self-enforced rules about repeating words and other such things."

lol

?

N3R0N0N Of 0nslaught3r wrote:

Jason wrote:

N3R0N0N Of 0nslaught3r wrote:

Jason, a double entendre means that one particular word is meant, while another could be used if some one is clever enough to pick up on the second meaning. HOWEVER, especially in hip hop, if you're rhyming it's pretty important on which word you use, because in this instance, Jay already rhymed the word "sense".

There's no rule that says you can't use a word twice, and the phrase is clearly a double entendre, as it can be interpreted either way, and it can be typed out either way, since the words are homophonic.

The impact of the double entendre is lessened by making it seem like he's just repeating a word. If you type the word "cents" it's more obvious, but if you go with "sense" it just looks like he's a lazy rapper instead of a clever one. Most rappers have self-enforced rules about repeating words and other such things.

That's just your opinion, which is neither here nor there.