100 Greatest Nominee Day 61 (A)

Steve wrote:

i never said that they didnt, did i powell? i wouldnt say destroys, they contributed one classic album and faded away pretty much, only sadat x kept doin work

In God We Trust
Everything Is Everything
Foundation

I mean Steve have you heard "Punks Jump Up To Get Beat Down"??

because this was after One For All

how about "Word Is Bond"??

"Don't Let It Go To Your Head"??

"Love Me Or Leave Me Alone"??

"Allah U Akbar"??

"Lick Dem Mothaphuckers"??

come on Steve

What's this whine shit from the dude that complains when his people don't get in but El-P gets close? I understand your passion Kev and I really have no problem with you or you voicing your opinion I was merely trying to have a civil convo with you.

I'm not fucking whining, jesus christ. You guys have a very limited response base.

I'm not even that big of a Def Jux fan, KJ. But keep trying to pidgeonhole me, maybe you'll get it one of these days.

i can name dope tracks from any skilled hip-hop collective, but what were they doing for hip-hop at that point? not a whole lot really, like I said after their classic they slowly faded away...are you disagreeing with me there???

Jason wrote:

Comparing El-P to Canibus or Chino XL is beyond silly. All they have in common is that they're underground rappers.

Good 'OL Jason completely MISSED the damn point as usual...lol...

jason, powell was saying that they are all relative nobodies in the grand scheme of hiphop

KJ Styles wrote:

Steve wrote:

and as for brand nubian...one classic album pal, after that, who cares. they didnt do shit for hiphop man.

They've done more for hip-hop overall than El-P. I like El/Company Flow, but there are SEVERAL acts who didn't make this list whom I'd rank over them.

Anybody that can't objectively understand that is a blind fanboy like N3R0.

And Steve, Sadat X is dope, but Grand Puba has much more noteriety.

I'd have to say I feel El-P has definitely done more for hip-hop than Brand Nubian. *duck*

Again, more classics, and I'd venture to say possibly more universal appeal.

Steve wrote:

i can name dope tracks from any skilled hip-hop collective, but what were they doing for hip-hop at that point? not a whole lot really, like I said after their classic they slowly faded away...are you disagreeing with me there???

HELL YEAH..I'm 1000% disagreeing with you and I don't think you fully know what your talking about..
these dudes were on Yo,MTV Raps, Video Music Box, BET-Rap City and a bunch of other outlets after One For All...I was watching man, I know!

they did not fade away after the debut, your wrong about that man

Brand Nubian have more pull in hip hop than El-P that is fact. Brand Nub 1st 3-4 albums are all on point and they are pioneers of the 5% movement in hip hop what is El-P pioneered for hip hop? I know El made it cool for more whites to maybe luv rap but I can't relate to that. What has he done for hip hop coming from my side of coin?

So when would you say they stopped being relevant, then?

Alan wrote:

KJ Styles wrote:

Steve wrote:

and as for brand nubian...one classic album pal, after that, who cares. they didnt do shit for hiphop man.

They've done more for hip-hop overall than El-P. I like El/Company Flow, but there are SEVERAL acts who didn't make this list whom I'd rank over them.

Anybody that can't objectively understand that is a blind fanboy like N3R0.

And Steve, Sadat X is dope, but Grand Puba has much more noteriety.

I'd have to say I feel El-P has definitely done more for hip-hop than Brand Nubian. *duck*

Again, more classics, and I'd venture to say possibly more universal appeal.

Alan, EL-P has done more for hip-hop than Grand Puba?? and Sadat X?? and Lord Jamar???

Alan if you were standing in front of me right now I would kick you down a flight of stairs man...lol..stop that shit!

D.Powell wrote:

Steve wrote:

i can name dope tracks from any skilled hip-hop collective, but what were they doing for hip-hop at that point? not a whole lot really, like I said after their classic they slowly faded away...are you disagreeing with me there???

HELL YEAH..I'm 1000% disagreeing with you and I don't think you fully know what your talking about...

I suppose you'll say the same to me, but you kind of don't know what you're talking about when it comes to El-P either...you disagree with that?

Steve wrote:

So when would you say they stopped being relevant, then?

I would say their still relevant today in terms of being a respected, legendary, pioneering group, but I would say their "star" really started going down in '98 after they released "Foundation" and that was because there was a guy who was wearing a "shiny-suit" and another guy who was barking like a dog that started changing the landscape of the game man

Steve wrote:

jason, powell was saying that they are all relative nobodies in the grand scheme of hiphop

I know that, that's why I said it's a silly comparison. I didn't miss anything. Chino Xl & Canibus are fine lyricists, that's all. El-P, on the other hand, has contributed hugely to the underground scene in Hip-Hop. He's one of the key figures in it's growth and musical direction. He's worked over and over again on important, acclaimed albums. To compare his contribution to Hip-Hop to Chino XL and Canibus, is silly. They're lyricists, damn good lyricists, but El-P has been a big part in pushing a major movement in Hip-Hop, in developing new styles.

I suppose it rests in Powell's idea that anything in Hip-Hop after 1995 is in general insignificant. The only reason to make that comparison is as a complete dismissal of underground Hip-Hop as at all important to Hip-Hop as a whole, or a lack of understanding of El-P's influence.

D.Powell wrote:

Alan wrote:

KJ Styles wrote:

Steve wrote:

and as for brand nubian...one classic album pal, after that, who cares. they didnt do shit for hiphop man.

They've done more for hip-hop overall than El-P. I like El/Company Flow, but there are SEVERAL acts who didn't make this list whom I'd rank over them.

Anybody that can't objectively understand that is a blind fanboy like N3R0.

And Steve, Sadat X is dope, but Grand Puba has much more noteriety.

I'd have to say I feel El-P has definitely done more for hip-hop than Brand Nubian. *duck*

Again, more classics, and I'd venture to say possibly more universal appeal.

Alan, EL-P has done more for hip-hop than Grand Puba?? and Sadat X?? and Lord Jamar???

Alan if you were standing in front of me right now I would kick you down a flight of stairs man...lol..stop that shit!

That is what I said. And I seriously feel it's extremely close. Personally, I'd spin El-P/Co Flow/El-P produced record before a Brand Nubian/Sadat X/Grand Puba/Lord Jamar record. And that does not mean I dislike them at all. I own 3 BN records, 1 Sadat X record, and 2 Grand Puba records. I really like both collectives.

Alan wrote:

D.Powell wrote:

Steve wrote:

i can name dope tracks from any skilled hip-hop collective, but what were they doing for hip-hop at that point? not a whole lot really, like I said after their classic they slowly faded away...are you disagreeing with me there???

HELL YEAH..I'm 1000% disagreeing with you and I don't think you fully know what your talking about...

I suppose you'll say the same to me, but you kind of don't know what you're talking about when it comes to El-P either...you disagree with that?

I think I'm pretty familiar with EL-P's greatest work (I own it man) and I respect and even like it, but he is not a top 100 of all-time hip-hop artist man...sorry

Damn, what the fuck is this idea that EL-P is some god damned pioneer and changed rap? WHAT did he change??????? EL-P is a NOBODY to 99% of people, and a dude like Canibus has 5 billion times more notoriety than EL-P.

KRob86 wrote:

Brand Nubian have more pull in hip hop than El-P that is fact. Brand Nub 1st 3-4 albums are all on point and they are pioneers of the 5% movement in hip hop what is El-P pioneered for hip hop? I know El made it cool for more whites to maybe luv rap but I can't relate to that. What has he done for hip hop coming from my side of coin?

Kev, that's BS. And who cares if white people like Def Jux. If Def Jux got WAY more white people listening to hip-hop, is that info tossed out of the window because they are white people? Steve, don't respond.

El-P made serious waves in the underground movement. He's not talked up as a production genius and visionary for nothing. He changed the way underground hip-hop sounds. Vibes & aesthetic. YOU may not be able to see that, but don't sit by and be blind about it.

Steve wrote:

Damn, what the fuck is this idea that EL-P is some god damned pioneer and changed rap? WHAT did he change??????? EL-P is a NOBODY to 99% of people, and a dude like Canibus has 5 billion times more notoriety than EL-P.

I'm not talking about notoriety. I'm talking about music. Musically, El-P has been one of the most significant figures in underground Hip-Hop for over a decade.

D.Powell wrote:

Alan wrote:

D.Powell wrote:

Steve wrote:

i can name dope tracks from any skilled hip-hop collective, but what were they doing for hip-hop at that point? not a whole lot really, like I said after their classic they slowly faded away...are you disagreeing with me there???

HELL YEAH..I'm 1000% disagreeing with you and I don't think you fully know what your talking about...

I suppose you'll say the same to me, but you kind of don't know what you're talking about when it comes to El-P either...you disagree with that?

I think I'm pretty familiar with EL-P's greatest work (I own it man) and I respect and even like it, but he is not a top 100 of all-time hip-hop artist man...sorry

Again, speaking as if that is fact. You do not know 95% of El-P's career. Period.

Jason wrote:

Steve wrote:

jason, powell was saying that they are all relative nobodies in the grand scheme of hiphop

I know that, that's why I said it's a silly comparison. I didn't miss anything. Chino Xl & Canibus are fine lyricists, that's all. El-P, on the other hand, has contributed hugely to the underground scene in Hip-Hop. He's one of the key figures in it's growth and musical direction. He's worked over and over again on important, acclaimed albums. To compare his contribution to Hip-Hop to Chino XL and Canibus, is silly. They're lyricists, damn good lyricists, put El-P has been a big part in pushing a major movement in Hip-Hop, in developing new styles.

I suppose it rests in Powell's idea that anything in Hip-Hop after 1995 is in general insignificant. The only reason to make that comparison is as a complete dismissal of underground Hip-Hop as at all important to Hip-Hop, or a lack of understanding of El-P's influence.

Umm Jason did Little Brother come out after 1995??

How about Ludacris??

how about ATLiens??

how about The Grind Date??

The Formula??

Jeanius??

eMC??

S.O.N.O.G.R.A.M

Jason your just spitting hot air again man...I respect some things you say but right now I really don't...respect what your saying that is...lol

[/quote]If Def Jux got WAY more white people listening to hip-hop, is that info tossed out of the window because they are white people? Steve, don't respond.[/quote]

LMAO

D.Powell wrote:

Jason wrote:

Steve wrote:

jason, powell was saying that they are all relative nobodies in the grand scheme of hiphop

I know that, that's why I said it's a silly comparison. I didn't miss anything. Chino Xl & Canibus are fine lyricists, that's all. El-P, on the other hand, has contributed hugely to the underground scene in Hip-Hop. He's one of the key figures in it's growth and musical direction. He's worked over and over again on important, acclaimed albums. To compare his contribution to Hip-Hop to Chino XL and Canibus, is silly. They're lyricists, damn good lyricists, put El-P has been a big part in pushing a major movement in Hip-Hop, in developing new styles.

I suppose it rests in Powell's idea that anything in Hip-Hop after 1995 is in general insignificant. The only reason to make that comparison is as a complete dismissal of underground Hip-Hop as at all important to Hip-Hop, or a lack of understanding of El-P's influence.

Umm Jason did Little Brother come out after 1995??

How about Ludacris??

how about ATLiens??

how about The Grind Date??

The Formula??

Jeanius??

eMC??

S.O.N.O.G.R.A.M

Jason your just spitting hot air again man...I respect some things you say but right now I really don't...respect what your saying that is...lol

Don't be so literal.

def jux didnt get white people listening to rap man, come off that. they didnt pioneer any new sound, or change how the underground is done either, so stop that too guys, come on. white people dont start with el-p...they may gravitate towards him after already being into it but they dont get into it for him.

Alan wrote:

D.Powell wrote:

Alan wrote:

D.Powell wrote:

Steve wrote:

i can name dope tracks from any skilled hip-hop collective, but what were they doing for hip-hop at that point? not a whole lot really, like I said after their classic they slowly faded away...are you disagreeing with me there???

HELL YEAH..I'm 1000% disagreeing with you and I don't think you fully know what your talking about...

I suppose you'll say the same to me, but you kind of don't know what you're talking about when it comes to El-P either...you disagree with that?

I think I'm pretty familiar with EL-P's greatest work (I own it man) and I respect and even like it, but he is not a top 100 of all-time hip-hop artist man...sorry

Again, speaking as if that is fact. You do not know 95% of El-P's career. Period.

Alan the stuff you just threw at me from youtube is some "dope" stuff from his career right?? he's "advanced" the game right??

THEN THROW ME SOME HOT SHIT MY DUDE...you already know I'll buy that shit right now...I love great hip-hop music I don't give a fuck who made it as long as it sounds good

Steve wrote:

Damn, what the fuck is this idea that EL-P is some god damned pioneer and changed rap? WHAT did he change??????? EL-P is a NOBODY to 99% of people, and a dude like Canibus has 5 billion times more notoriety than EL-P.

Canibus? I doubt that. I'd say El-P has at least 6 billion times more notoriety. But our notoriety sources come from different places. And since I'm white and haven't been listening to hip-hop my whole life, you win, right?

But Powell, perhaps it is telling that, with the exception of Ludacris, everything you listed is either by an artist who debuted before 1995, or is strongly calling back to an early 90's sound.

Steve wrote:

def jux didnt get white people listening to rap man, come off that. they didnt pioneer any new sound, or change how the underground is done either, so stop that too guys, come on. white people dont start with el-p...they may gravitate towards him after already being into it but they dont get into it for him.

I didn't say that thing about white people. Kev did. I responded sarcastically.

But I do believe he pioneered a new sound. So that's where we disagree.

D.Powell wrote:

Alan wrote:

D.Powell wrote:

Alan wrote:

D.Powell wrote:

Steve wrote:

i can name dope tracks from any skilled hip-hop collective, but what were they doing for hip-hop at that point? not a whole lot really, like I said after their classic they slowly faded away...are you disagreeing with me there???

HELL YEAH..I'm 1000% disagreeing with you and I don't think you fully know what your talking about...

I suppose you'll say the same to me, but you kind of don't know what you're talking about when it comes to El-P either...you disagree with that?

I think I'm pretty familiar with EL-P's greatest work (I own it man) and I respect and even like it, but he is not a top 100 of all-time hip-hop artist man...sorry

Again, speaking as if that is fact. You do not know 95% of El-P's career. Period.

Alan the stuff you just threw at me from youtube is some "dope" stuff from his career right?? he's "advanced" the game right??

THEN THROW ME SOME HOT SHIT MY DUDE...you already know I'll buy that shit right now...I love great hip-hop music I don't give a fuck who made it as long as it sounds good

El-P does not have many "single" type songs. What did you not like about the songs? Abstract? Menacing? Rapping? I tell you, those songs are big with many Def Jux fans. But solo El-P can be VERY different from just El-P producing records for some other rapper.

Jason wrote:

But Powell, perhaps it is telling that, with the exception of Ludacris, everything you listed is either by an artist who debuted before 1995, or is strongly calling back to an early 90's sound.

Jason does have a point here, Powell. Which is why I questioned if you even like El-P's brand of hip-hop.

Jason wrote:

But Powell, perhaps it is telling that, with the exception of Ludacris, everything you listed is either by an artist who debuted before 1995, or is strongly calling back to an early 90's sound.

The stuff I listed Jason came out after 1995, am I right??

I can list some more stuff for you Jason but for what??

and Little Brother did not come out before 1995

Again, don't take what I said too literally, I know there's stuff you like after 1995. But again, while Little Brother didn't come out before 1995, they were never exactly a forward looking group musically. A big part of their appeal was that they were so reminiscent of some of those early 90s groups. In fact, their name says it all. So, it's newer music, but not a newer sound.

EL-P is not a top 100 hip-hop artist of all-time unless I can hear some shit from him other than Company Flow that is going to be dope....plain and simple...I don't want to hear that "niche" market bullshit...either he's dope or he's not...sounds like that dude Linker is in love with..that "niche" market bullshit....to even think about being a top 100 hip-hop artist of all-time you better have some UNIVERSAL appeal...not just catering to a specific market but your known as being dope across the fuckin board man

D.Powell wrote:

EL-P is not a top 100 hip-hop artist of all-time unless I can hear some shit from him other than Company Flow that is going to be dope....plain and simple...I don't want to hear that "niche" market bullshit...either he's dope or he's not...sounds like that dude Linker is in love with..that "niche" market bullshit....to even think about being a top 100 hip-hop artist of all-time you better have some UNIVERSAL appeal...not just catering to a specific market but your known as being dope across the fuckin board man

El-P does have universal appeal. Go pick up all the Def Jux CDs at Best Buy. They got 'em!

Maybe we should do each artist twice one day, once for impact/influence, and once for actual rapping skill, that way people who struggle with the concept could vote with clean conscience.

Alan wrote:

D.Powell wrote:

EL-P is not a top 100 hip-hop artist of all-time unless I can hear some shit from him other than Company Flow that is going to be dope....plain and simple...I don't want to hear that "niche" market bullshit...either he's dope or he's not...sounds like that dude Linker is in love with..that "niche" market bullshit....to even think about being a top 100 hip-hop artist of all-time you better have some UNIVERSAL appeal...not just catering to a specific market but your known as being dope across the fuckin board man

El-P does have universal appeal. Go pick up all the Def Jux CDs at Best Buy. They got 'em!

you'll have better luck finding Def Jux CD's at best buy than you will old school NY rap unfortunately.

T. Myers wrote:

Alan wrote:

D.Powell wrote:

EL-P is not a top 100 hip-hop artist of all-time unless I can hear some shit from him other than Company Flow that is going to be dope....plain and simple...I don't want to hear that "niche" market bullshit...either he's dope or he's not...sounds like that dude Linker is in love with..that "niche" market bullshit....to even think about being a top 100 hip-hop artist of all-time you better have some UNIVERSAL appeal...not just catering to a specific market but your known as being dope across the fuckin board man

El-P does have universal appeal. Go pick up all the Def Jux CDs at Best Buy. They got 'em!

you'll have better luck finding Def Jux CD's at best buy than you will old school NY rap unfortunately.

Very true. I'm sure there's way more Def Jux that anything by Brand Nubian including solos.

Alan wrote:

T. Myers wrote:

Alan wrote:

D.Powell wrote:

EL-P is not a top 100 hip-hop artist of all-time unless I can hear some shit from him other than Company Flow that is going to be dope....plain and simple...I don't want to hear that "niche" market bullshit...either he's dope or he's not...sounds like that dude Linker is in love with..that "niche" market bullshit....to even think about being a top 100 hip-hop artist of all-time you better have some UNIVERSAL appeal...not just catering to a specific market but your known as being dope across the fuckin board man

El-P does have universal appeal. Go pick up all the Def Jux CDs at Best Buy. They got 'em!

you'll have better luck finding Def Jux CD's at best buy than you will old school NY rap unfortunately.

Very true. I'm sure there's way more Def Jux that anything by Brand Nubian including solos.

then I'm on my way to Best Buy after I leave the office to see what the hell the fuss is all about and I should have a complete report within the next two weeks....I look forward to hearing some dopeness

D.Powell wrote:

Alan wrote:

T. Myers wrote:

Alan wrote:

D.Powell wrote:

EL-P is not a top 100 hip-hop artist of all-time unless I can hear some shit from him other than Company Flow that is going to be dope....plain and simple...I don't want to hear that "niche" market bullshit...either he's dope or he's not...sounds like that dude Linker is in love with..that "niche" market bullshit....to even think about being a top 100 hip-hop artist of all-time you better have some UNIVERSAL appeal...not just catering to a specific market but your known as being dope across the fuckin board man

El-P does have universal appeal. Go pick up all the Def Jux CDs at Best Buy. They got 'em!

you'll have better luck finding Def Jux CD's at best buy than you will old school NY rap unfortunately.

Very true. I'm sure there's way more Def Jux that anything by Brand Nubian including solos.

then I'm on my way to Best Buy after I leave the office to see what the hell the fuss is all about and I should have a complete report within the next two weeks....I look forward to hearing some dopeness

Powell, you didn't like the El-P. And there will be more you don't like. This I'm sure of.

You had your fair warning. So don't come complaining to me if you don't like some shit. In fact, there are a number of Def Jux records I do not like either.

Powell, not sure if you were joking or not, but...

Def Jux material with El-P:

Cannibal Ox - The Cold Vein (4.5 stars)
El-P - Fantastic Damage (5 stars)
Mr. Lif - I Phantom (5 stars) <--- my favorite
Murs - The End Of The Beginning... (5 stars) <--- 2 El-P cuts
Perceptionists, The - Black Dialogue (5 stars) <--- 3 El-P cuts. second favorite
Cage - Hell's Winter (4 stars)
El-P - I'll Sleep When You're Dead (4 stars)
Aesop Rock - None Shall Pass (4 stars) <--- 2 El-P cuts
Mr. Lif - Mo' Mega (3.5 stars) <--- El-P is the main reason for it's dopeness

I'm sure there is more I'm missing. However, there are a lot of examples of production that was inspired by El-P's initial style on the Def Jux label and elsewhere. His style has inspired many.

Knowing the style of newer hip-hop you like, Powell. I have no doubt you will really like, if not love the one's I put in bold

"Knowing the style of newer hip-hop you like, Powell. I have no doubt you will really like, if not love the one's I put in bold"

Indeed. If you're going to get some Def Jux material, start with those two

N3R0 of 0nslaught3r wrote:

I'm not even that big of a Def Jux fan, KJ. But keep trying to pidgeonhole me, maybe you'll get it one of these days.

Then why are you being a little bitch because I voted neither??? You're pigeonholing your damn self!

Steve also voted neither, but I don't see you giving him shit. I guess it's because he's your boy, huh?

What the hell is the big deal? If they don't like El-P they can't vote for him. And I thought it was established that if a seasoned hiphop fan has gotten by without listening to an artist, a 'neither' is a valid vote.

What the fuck. You guys are acting like these dudes are the only ones aloud to make music after this poll.

Kid Joe wrote:

What the hell is the big deal? If they don't like El-P they can't vote for him. And I thought it was established that if a seasoned hiphop fan has gotten by without listening to an artist, a 'neither' is a valid vote.

What the fuck. You guys are acting like these dudes are the only ones aloud to make music after this poll.

nah man, if you vote neither without listening its like instantly trashing the artist. If you've listen to them you can judge whether they're top 50 top 100 material or not(neither)

I disagree. If I've been listening to hip hop for 20+ years without ever hearing an artist, I can legitamitely say that artist does not make MY top 100, which is really what this is all about. Finding everyone's middle ground, meeting point, whateverthefuckyacallit.

Kid Joe wrote:

I disagree. If I've been listening to hip hop for 20+ years without ever hearing an artist, I can legitamitely say that artist does not make MY top 100, which is really what this is all about. Finding everyone's middle ground, meeting point, whateverthefuckyacallit.

How can you.. lets say you've never listen to Nas you're whole life because all you ever heard was the worst song off Nastradamus, and decided he was wack. Does that mean you'd vote neither for him as well?

Well, he couldn't be in my top 100, could he? Therefore, by voting him neither, I'm adding a true representation of my listening preferences to be equally and fairly mixed with everyone else's.

Don't get me wrong here. I think El-P's career is bad ass. ISWYD is one of my favorite albums of recent years (I know I'm odd man out with that...). He is definitely in my top 100.

That said, he is definitely not in the top 100 for a few folks here. Whether that's because they don't like him or don't know him is irrelevant. He's not on their list. Period.

I hope he makes it. I think I'll be OK if he doesn't, though.

well, he's not in your top 100 because you wouldn't have had any knowledge on him. This isn't supposed to be a personal top 100, its a consensus top 100. Therefore, by having no knowledge about an artist you should refrain from voting, like the rest of us do when we don't really know an artist.

"This isn't supposed to be a personal top 100, its a consensus top 100."

A concensus is created by collecting from individuals, right? As somebody already said, if he's not on their list that means 100 other motherfuckers are. So the vote is neither regardless of why.

Kid Joe wrote:

"This isn't supposed to be a personal top 100, its a consensus top 100."

A concensus is created by collecting from individuals, right? As somebody already said, if he's not on their list that means 100 other motherfuckers are. So the vote is neither regardless of why.

its fine if you vote neither because you've actually heard the artist's music and decide its trash. But to bash something just because you've never heard it is ridiculous. Its like me saying .... awww a Rolls Royce Phantom is trash because I've never driven it and Honda Accords are better.