Underground elitists are just as bad as pop boppers IMO

The reason I feel this way is because they're equally as narrow minded. They may have better overall playlists than pop boppers, but I hate the fact that they think that anybody who does something commercial or poppish is wack, or that any commercial/poppish song is wack because that couldn't be further from the truth.

People in here try to criticize me by saying that my taste isn't diverse, when that's BS because I like all types of different MC's. But underground elitists don't. Some underground elitists would even go as far as to stop listening to one of their favorites if they blew up with a few commercial singles, and that's totally lame.

I could see if an MC completely changes their style to blow up because that abandons their fanbase, but if they still have the same key elements that made them dope to begin with and just add some commercial appeal to it, then it's all good with me. After all, niggaz gotta eat so I cannot blame them for wanting to blow up and neither should the shallow minded backpackers.

Bottom line, dopeness is dopeness. I love MC's that can do both hardcore and commercial rap well and deliver dope lines in both types of tracks. That to me is diverse. Most underground elitists fail to realize that, and that makes their listening tastes just as limited as pop boppers. The only difference is one extreme vs another.

You need to post this on the KRS vs. Eminem thread on Amazon

T. Myers wrote:

You need to post this on the KRS vs. Eminem thread on Amazon

Sounds like a plan. I haven't been to the Amazon forums in a long time so this would be a hot topic there.

Yeah, them dudes are very smug and pompous

"Dopeness is dopeness". I agree 100%. I try not to discriminate. I have all my mainstream and underground albums bunched together and separated by region. I usually change regions every 2-3 days so i don't get stuck in one area. So if i'm listening to Midwest i may bump Bone Thugs which is as main stream as it gets and follow it up with Brother Ali. I do tend to lean more to the underground just because i feel like it's more authentic these days, but i don't hate on somebody because they blow up.

E. Taylor wrote:

"Dopeness is dopeness". I agree 100%. I try not to discriminate. I have all my mainstream and underground albums bunched together and separated by region. I usually change regions every 2-3 days so i don't get stuck in one area. So if i'm listening to Midwest i may bump Bone Thugs which is as main stream as it gets and follow it up with Brother Ali. I do tend to lean more to the underground just because i feel like it's more authentic these days, but i don't hate on somebody because they blow up.

I do the samething! I make sure I balance my cd playlist for the ride with something from each region and sound. I cannot listen to one regions style back to back to back. I think that is what keeps my luv for hip hop music fresh.

And KJ I agree with this post. Matter of fact the elitists are worst imo because the pop boppers usually really don't know any betta but the elitists understand the roots of hip hop most of the time.

I would go as far to say that underground elitists are WORSE than pop boppers. I don't know many pop boppers that ONLY listen to records that come out on Interscope, but I do know underground heads that only listen to Anticon, or Def Jux, or Rhymesayers, etc etc.

Yeah, I don't really care about any external factors when listening to music of any genre. So I don't understand the position of underground elitist or pop bopper.

Kendrick Davis wrote:

Yeah, I don't really care about any external factors when listening to music of any genre. So I don't understand the position of underground elitist or pop bopper.

Same here. It's kind of silly, really.

As far as listening habits go, I just close my eyes and reach for a disc. Sure, there are some mainstays that sit on my desk, but there's no way all of these CDs get rotated equally. I'd try that region idea, but it'd take at least a week to get shit in order.

Kev and Jeff, you guys are right for the most part about underground elitists being worse. Because 9 times out of 10 you can convert a pop bopper into a well rounded listener.

My nephew for example loves Shady/Aftermath, Lil Wayne, D-Block, Dipset (I know D-Block aren't pop boppers but that was one of the few non-pop acts he bumped) But I bumped some Nas, Biggie, Pac, Rakim, KRS, BDK, Wu-Tang, Outkast, Roots, etc for him and he loves their stuff now too. In fact, he bumps it as often as his pop bopper shit and Redman has become his favorite rapper.

You could never get an underground elitist to appreciate someone like Jay Z or Kanye though, and that's lame.

KJ Styles wrote:

Kev and Jeff, you guys are right for the most part about underground elitists being worse. Because 9 times out of 10 you can convert a pop bopper into a well rounded listener.

My nephew for example loves Shady/Aftermath, Lil Wayne, D-Block, Dipset (I know D-Block aren't pop boppers but that was one of the few non-pop acts he bumped) But I bumped some Nas, Biggie, Pac, Rakim, KRS, BDK, Wu-Tang, Outkast, Roots, etc for him and he loves them stuff now too. In fact, he bumps it as often as his pop bopper shit and Redman has become his favorite rapper.

You could never get an underground elitist to appreciate someone like Jay Z or Kanye though, and that's lame.

No disrespect and all, but uhh..you're a pop bopper, homeskillet. That just sealed it. 5 out of 9 of those names are proud owners of multiple platinum plaques. LOL

Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course...

Elitists and pop boppers are just different sides of the same coin, though. And they both hate when they see their counterparts because it reminds them so much of themselves. I think the only difference is that the elitist is more likely to demand quality from their favorites.

Kopasetick wrote:

KJ Styles wrote:

Kev and Jeff, you guys are right for the most part about underground elitists being worse. Because 9 times out of 10 you can convert a pop bopper into a well rounded listener.

My nephew for example loves Shady/Aftermath, Lil Wayne, D-Block, Dipset (I know D-Block aren't pop boppers but that was one of the few non-pop acts he bumped) But I bumped some Nas, Biggie, Pac, Rakim, KRS, BDK, Wu-Tang, Outkast, Roots, etc for him and he loves them stuff now too. In fact, he bumps it as often as his pop bopper shit and Redman has become his favorite rapper.

You could never get an underground elitist to appreciate someone like Jay Z or Kanye though, and that's lame.

No disrespect and all, but uhh..you're a pop bopper, homeskillet. That just sealed it. 5 out of 9 of those names are proud owners of multiple platinum plaques. LOL

Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course...

Elitists and pop boppers are just different sides of the same coin, though. And they both hate when they see their counterparts because it reminds them so much of themselves. I think the only difference is that the elitist is more likely to demand quality from their favorites.

Yeah KJ you didn't list any underground artists there. I don't care though, I get what you were trying to say.

Kopasetick wrote:

KJ Styles wrote:

Kev and Jeff, you guys are right for the most part about underground elitists being worse. Because 9 times out of 10 you can convert a pop bopper into a well rounded listener.

My nephew for example loves Shady/Aftermath, Lil Wayne, D-Block, Dipset (I know D-Block aren't pop boppers but that was one of the few non-pop acts he bumped) But I bumped some Nas, Biggie, Pac, Rakim, KRS, BDK, Wu-Tang, Outkast, Roots, etc for him and he loves them stuff now too. In fact, he bumps it as often as his pop bopper shit and Redman has become his favorite rapper.

You could never get an underground elitist to appreciate someone like Jay Z or Kanye though, and that's lame.

No disrespect and all, but uhh..you're a pop bopper, homeskillet. That just sealed it. 5 out of 9 of those names are proud owners of multiple platinum plaques. LOL

Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course...

Elitists and pop boppers are just different sides of the same coin, though. And they both hate when they see their counterparts because it reminds them so much of themselves. I think the only difference is that the elitist is more likely to demand quality from their favorites.

How the fuck am I a pop bopper???? How many pop boppers bump Nas, Rakim, BDK, and The Roots? Let alone have Black Thought among their Top 5 of all time????

Pop boppers didn't even know who the fuck Black Thought was until they saw him on the BET award doing that cypher, and most pop boppers don't know anyone in Wu-Tang not named Method Man.

Liking MC's that have platinum plaques DOES NOT MAKE YOU A POP BOPPER. What makes someone a pop bopper is liking mainly MC's with little to no substance. The majority of pop boppers wouldn't give groups like The Roots, MOP, Dead Prez or Jurassic 5 a second look.

So Norf, just like your Wizards you shot an airball there pal.

And to Halfshark. I like plenty of underground rappers. The thing is though, when trying to convert a pop bopper into a more well rounded listener, MC's like Immortal Technique and Doom (as much as I like them) aren't the place to start because you've gotta really have an open mind to dig those guys.

I forgot that you were the one who created pop-bopper, therefore, allowing you to define the term.

Shaun wrote:

I forgot that you were the one who created pop-bopper, therefore, allowing you to define the term.

I wasn't the one that created it, but that's the basic definition.

KJ Styles wrote:

How the fuck am I a pop bopper???? How many pop boppers bump Nas, Rakim, BDK, and The Roots? Let alone have Black Thought among their Top 5 of all time????

Pop boppers didn't even know who the fuck Black Thought was until they saw him on the BET award doing that cypher, and most pop boppers don't know anyone in Wu-Tang not named Method Man.

Liking MC's that have platinum plaques DOES NOT MAKE YOU A POP BOPPER. What makes someone a pop bopper is liking mainly MC's with little to no substance. The majority of pop boppers wouldn't give groups like The Roots, MOP, Dead Prez or Jurassic 5 a second look.

So Norf, just like your Wizards you shot an airball there pal.

And to Halfshark. I like plenty of underground rappers. The thing is though, when trying to convert a pop bopper into a more well rounded listener, MC's like Immortal Technique and Doom (as much as I like them) aren't the place to start because you've gotta really have an open mind to dig those guys.

Couple things....

1) The Roots don't have multiple platinum plaques. Just one. They've been on the radio since they came out. Maybe under the radar, but definitely on the radio. They haven't been underground since Organix.

2) How're you gonna tell me what "pop bopper" means? Trotter made the term up. Maybe he can clarify, but I just assumed he was referring to mainstream music for mainstream minds (or something to that effect)...

3) Nas has never been underground. I was around when he dropped. Not sure how it was in the west or south, but you couldn't get away from "It Ain't Hard To Tell" here in the east when it came out...

4) At some point, with the exception Wu Tang (?), all of the multiplatinum artists you named have sold out. You dig sellouts. That's fine. I do too. Just man up and say so...

And don't talk to me about airballs....Gallinari hasn't approached 42% more than 2 times since Jan 22nd. Right, Esco? lol

I bump nothing but that real shit, whether it be commercial or underground. I got the best taste in the forum and that is verified by vote, so I try to keep it as balanced as possible. We all got our bias, but mine is the best like Khaled would say.

I think anyone who restricts themselves to any style or whatever is very KJish to say the least. And KJ is a pop bopper who took a time machine to 2010 from 1995 and thinks that somehow makes him an underground head.

It's all bullshit.

[quote="Kopasetick"]

KJ Styles wrote:

How the fuck am I a pop bopper???? How many pop boppers bump Nas, Rakim, BDK, and The Roots? Let alone have Black Thought among their Top 5 of all time????

Pop boppers didn't even know who the fuck Black Thought was until they saw him on the BET award doing that cypher, and most pop boppers don't know anyone in Wu-Tang not named Method Man.

Liking MC's that have platinum plaques DOES NOT MAKE YOU A POP BOPPER. What makes someone a pop bopper is liking mainly MC's with little to no substance. The majority of pop boppers wouldn't give groups like The Roots, MOP, Dead Prez or Jurassic 5 a second look.

So Norf, just like your Wizards you shot an airball there pal.

And to Halfshark. I like plenty of underground rappers. The thing is though, when trying to convert a pop bopper into a more well rounded listener, MC's like Immortal Technique and Doom (as much as I like them) aren't the place to start because you've gotta really have an open mind to dig those guys.

Couple things....

Quote :

1) The Roots don't have multiple platinum plaques. Just one. They've been on the radio since they came out. Maybe under the radar, but definitely on the radio. They haven't been underground since Organix.

They may no longer be underground, but pop boppers ain't claimin them.

Quote :

2) How're you gonna tell me what "pop bopper" means? Trotter made the term up. Maybe he can clarify, but I just assumed he was referring to mainstream music for mainstream minds (or something to that effect)....

Trotter is EXACTLY the type of person I was referring to when I created this thread. People who shun anything even remotely commercial.

Quote :

3) Nas has never been underground. I was around when he dropped. Not sure how it was in the west or south, but you couldn't get away from "It Ain't Hard To Tell" here in the east when it came out...

Illmatic is an album that most underground niggaz LOVE. He didn't become officially mainstream until It Was Written dropped. It Ain't Hard To Tell is a popular song (my fav by him BTW), but it's hardly a pop-bopper tune with lyrics like "Sneak an Uzi on the island in my army jacket linin"

Quote :

4) At some point, with the exception Wu Tang (?), all of the multiplatinum artists you named have sold out. You dig sellouts. That's fine. I do too. Just man up and say so...

With that statement, you COMPLETELY missed the point of this thread (hence the airball comment which I'll address next). As I said above, dopeness is dopeness. I played those artists for my nephews because those are artists that can appeal to anyone. I like MC's like Immortal Tech, Binary Star, Jurassic 5, MF Doom, Cunnilynguists, etc. But those artists don't have mass appeal. Guys like Nas, Biggie, 2Pac, Wu-Tang, Outkast, and Redman do. Hence the reason why I played them for my nephew because any type of fan is capable of diggin their music. Do I like certain commercial artists? Yes I do, but that DOES NOT make me a pop bopper.

Quote :

And don't talk to me about airballs....Gallinari hasn't approached 42% more than 2 times since Jan 22nd. Right, Esco? lol

Well last I checked he STILL leads the league in 3 pointers so you can't say he's an airball artist.

lol...in your address to what I said, you didn't address anything I said...

At least you didn't get a nice little picture collage. Man, KJ makes me feel like I got kid bring me his dumb ass arts and crafts every day with a goofy smile on his face.

Now I feel left out... lol

Kopasetick wrote:

lol...in your address to what I said, you didn't address anything I said...

I addressed EVERYTHING you said, read it again.

Basically, if you consider me a pop-bopper than so are you because you bump those artists as well.

I think you missed the point of why I was playing those guys for my nephew. It'd the same as me playing Michael Jackson and Stevie Wonder to somebody who mainly follows cats like Chris Brown and The Dream. Because cats like Mike and Stevie have timeless music that can appeal to ANY type of R&B/Soul fan.

Also keep in mind that the peeps I played for him aren't limited to those guys, those are simply examples. Since then, he's done a little crate diggin but I thought I'd use the legends to broaden his hip-hop horizon first. Make sense?

And to Pedro, you dickride every fucking thing I say because I stay on your mind like that $5 Box deal at Taco Bell. I'm flattered you think about me so much, but sorry I don't swing that way dude. I'm heterosexual.

Nor most pop boppers do not bump Nas, Roots, Rakim, Lupe, and shit like that. I see where you are going though because for our generation Rakim, LL, BDK, Pac, etc etc were just as manistream as TI, Gucci, and Black Eyed Peas on a different level. Most pop boppers could give a shit about the culture and integerity of the artform. They are only concerned with whats hot and new for the most part.

KRob86 wrote:

Nor most pop boppers do not bump Nas, Roots, Rakim, Lupe, and shit like that. I see where you are going though because for our generation Rakim, LL, BDK, Pac, etc etc were just as manistream as TI, Gucci, and Black Eyed Peas on a different level. Most pop boppers could give a shit about the culture and integerity of the artform. They are only concerned with whats hot and new for the most part.

EXACTLY!!!! Glad somebody gets it. Thank you Kev!

Ummm.. The Roots DEF JAM

LUPE FIASCO ATLANTIC...

these a major labels people... you may find their subject matter or music to transcend the typical pop rap... but they are still pop rap and get reported upon by the media right next to the TI and Gucci Mane's of the world.

THe Roots did an album with Jay-Z... Lupe has been on tracks with Kanye...

"Illmatic is an album that most underground niggaz LOVE. He didn't become officially mainstream until It Was Written dropped. It Ain't Hard To Tell is a popular song (my fav by him BTW), but it's hardly a pop-bopper tune with lyrics like "Sneak an Uzi on the island in my army jacket linin""

He didn't become officially mainstream? What does that even mean?

So according to you, anybody on a major label is pop rap???

That type of thinking is EXACTLY why I made this thread.

KJ Styles wrote:

So according to you, anybody on a major label is pop rap???

That type of thinking is EXACTLY why I made this thread.

Forgive give me for considering an artist on a MAJOR label part of POPULAR music. It's not according to me KJ, it is fact. If you have a major label pushing you, filming your video, paying for your airplay, and pressing up 100s of 1000s of CDs and putting them in stores, then you are a pop rap artist. You can tailor your music any way you wish, but you are pop rap. That my friend is fact.

The reason you made this thread is because of assholes like yourself who seem to associate a negative connotation with the term pop rap.

If you are being pushed by a major, you have a responsibility to your record company to be pop(ular). If you are not pop(ular), you will be dropped from the label. Majors don't push artists they can't eat off of. Does listening to these artists make you a pop bopper? That's not my call, but being popular is an absolute requirement of being on a major label.

Pop rap= Popular rap. If you're on a major label, like SRP said, then you have major backing. This makes you a popular artist. It's really quite simple.

Shaun wrote:

"Illmatic is an album that most underground niggaz LOVE. He didn't become officially mainstream until It Was Written dropped. It Ain't Hard To Tell is a popular song (my fav by him BTW), but it's hardly a pop-bopper tune with lyrics like "Sneak an Uzi on the island in my army jacket linin""

He didn't become officially mainstream? What does that even mean?

Wow, I have to break down EVERYTHING??? Geez, You're still a baby Shaun so at least you have a legit excuse.

Nas didn't officially become mainstream until It Was Written because Illmatic initially only sold about 200,000 copies. Only die-hard hip-hop fans really knew about Illmatic at the time of it's release. It Was Written was the album in which casual hip-hop fans got familiar with him, and after they listened to IWW they WENT BACK and copped Illmatic.

Being mainstream DOES NOT make you pop though. If that's the case then EVERY mainstream rap artist would be considered pop.

That's funny considering Illmatic went gold in a pretty consistent time frame with most popular rap albums during its time.

Lionel Hutz wrote:

KJ Styles wrote:

So according to you, anybody on a major label is pop rap???

That type of thinking is EXACTLY why I made this thread.

Forgive give me for considering an artist on a MAJOR label part of POPULAR music. It's not according to me KJ, it is fact. If you have a major label pushing you, filming your video, paying for your airplay, and pressing up 100s of 1000s of CDs and putting them in stores, then you are a pop rap artist. You can tailor your music any way you wish, but you are pop rap. That my friend is fact.

The reason you made this thread is because of assholes like yourself who seem to associate a negative connotation with the term pop rap.

Well then you're a pop bopper as well then jackass! Your GOAT rapper Seagram was on a major label, as were your GOAT group UGK.

And Illmatic took almost 2 years to go gold, and 7 years to go platinum.

Define becoming mainstream, then. It doesn't matter how much you sell. If Soulja Boy dropped an album tomorrow that only sells 40 copies, does that make him no longer a mainstream artist? Jesus.

Of course KJ. I bump plenty of pop rap. When did I deny that? Oh wait, I didn't you fool.

Most of my goats are pop rappers, I also bump underground. Somehow they both co-exist for me and I am able to find traits in both that I enjoy. Try it some day.

Lionel Hutz wrote:

Most of my goats are pop rappers, I also bump underground. Somehow they both co-exist for me and I am able to find traits in both that I enjoy. Try it some day.

I bump both mainstream and underground artists as well, yet you label me a pop-bopper. I'm no more of a pop-bopper than you are, fool.

KJ Styles wrote:

Lionel Hutz wrote:

Most of my goats are pop rappers, I also bump underground. Somehow they both co-exist for me and I am able to find traits in both that I enjoy. Try it some day.

I bump both mainstream and underground artists as well, yet you label me a pop-bopper. I'm no more of a pop-bopper than you are, fool.

But you are a pop bopper.

Lionel Hutz wrote:

KJ Styles wrote:

Lionel Hutz wrote:

Most of my goats are pop rappers, I also bump underground. Somehow they both co-exist for me and I am able to find traits in both that I enjoy. Try it some day.

I bump both mainstream and underground artists as well, yet you label me a pop-bopper. I'm no more of a pop-bopper than you are, fool.

But you are a pop bopper.

I don't see it that way, but if I am by your bullshit definition then SO ARE YOU. In fact, the majority of this forum is.

Way to fuck up an intelligent thread by your ignorance Pedro.

"I don't see it that way, but if I am by your bullshit definition then SO ARE YOU. In fact, the majority of this forum is.

Way to fuck up an intelligent thread by your ignorance Pedro."

Again, no one who has participated in this thread has said otherwise. I'm a pop bopper. SRP's a pop bopper. Terry's a pop bopper. Powell's a pop bopper. You're a pop bopper.

KJ Styles wrote:

Lionel Hutz wrote:

KJ Styles wrote:

Lionel Hutz wrote:

Most of my goats are pop rappers, I also bump underground. Somehow they both co-exist for me and I am able to find traits in both that I enjoy. Try it some day.

I bump both mainstream and underground artists as well, yet you label me a pop-bopper. I'm no more of a pop-bopper than you are, fool.

But you are a pop bopper.

I don't see it that way, but if I am by your bullshit definition then SO ARE YOU. In fact, the majority of this forum is.

Way to fuck up an intelligent thread by your ignorance Pedro.

I am not the one being ignorant.

I am just saying that out of the two of us, you seem to be the one who would closer fit the definition of a pop bopper, because as much as you say you bump underground, your tastes seem more influenced by the major labels than most.

With that end, I think most of the older heads on this forum and anywhere at the very least started their listening career as pop boppers because that was all they knew. Even the younger heads started usually through pop bopping and then expanded their horizons.

I hate most pop, especially today's pop. I can't stand it. In general, a lot of it's substance has absolutely zero appeal to myself, particularly the lyrics but the beats too. No I won't listen to someone like Kanye. IMO he's a retard anyway, so I don't feel I'm missing out on much. If we're talking old rap, I have some mainstream artist titles like Wu Tang and Nas 1st albums, because back then most of it was quality, too much crap now though, and the music has changed a lot, even for the stuff that is quality. I just can't get with a lot of it, so I am happy to keep living in the past.

first of all pop rap does not equal popular rap.

Pop rap is a genre, just like indie rap, hardcore rap, gangsta rap, etc.

Popular rap is any rap that is popular among the masses

an underground cat can make "pop rap" yet it may not be popular

There is a big ass differance between pop and mainstream imo.

Pop imo means your music is marketable to any and all types of people of all walks of life no matter what their preferences is they will like your singles more than likely. You are mega popular and on almost every radio station and video station period. Examples:
Hammer
Black Eyed Peas
Soulja Boy
50 Cent
Jay-Z
Beyonce
Usher

Mainstream means you have major label push or buzz only the hardcore audience most of the time is only ones checking for you. You are well known to the consumers who are loyal to that sound but on a worldwide level you are not as known. Examples:
Nas
Roots
Jim Jones
TI
Outkast (could be pop also)
Trey Songz
Maxwell

Midstream artist imo still have major label or established independent label push but will usually only sell to their core audiences. They use to be mainstream most of the time but their popularity has slipped. Examples
Scarface
KRS One
Rakim
UGK
Mobb Deep
E-40

Undaground is self explanatory.

I don't disagree with that Kev, but like i said. If you're on a major label, you have to make pop music to a certain extent. You're not completely "free". As great as Untitled is it still had The Chris Brown track. so where do you draw the line if you want to put labels on these artists? Is there a difference between Nas doing one or two tracks for the radio compared to Jeezy doing a whole record full of singles? or is it the fact that Nas has lyrical ability and people look the other way? A combination of things? There is no right or wrong answer, This is why it's stupid to put boundaries, labels, and limitations on an artist or a genre.

I feel you Terry because the lines are blurred all the time. BEP and Jeezy both started underground yet Jeezy is more mainstream than pop but both could be considered pop.

Nas is a mainstream artist that has made mainstream accessible songs. So I get what you mean about if you are on a major label you have to put out accessibile songs but thats the record business period. But the definition of what was an accessibile song has changed dramatically over the years. Cube put out Dead Homies as a single at one point.

Slang Editorial wrote:

an underground cat can make "pop rap" yet it may not be popular

A good point

This thread reminds me of when t449 made that thread on Amazon "Just because it's underground doesn't mean it's good". hahaha

Nice break down Kev, it makes sense, but I think underground can be broken up and categorized further too, I guess it depends on how much you want to go in to it though.

As for myself I don't think I've EVER been a pop-bopper; that probably due to the fact that when I got my first taste of hip-hop (waaaaay back in '78) it was ALL underground. My definition of a pop-bopper would be someone who's obsessed with "hot right now" and also thinks that if someone achieves mainstream success they are somehow "better" i.e. has more skills/talent than someone who hasn't and that is just not always the case. There are myriad factors that determine why some artists blow up and some don't, like marketing, cost of goods etc. I personally have never relied entirely on the mass media for information regarding my music choices; a good 80-some-odd percent of all my music purchases wers made sound-unheard. Damn lost my train of thought..........