100 Greastest Nominee Day 42

Pharoah Monche/Organized Konfusion

Top 50. His work with OK was very good and I really liked Internal Affairs. Desire wasn't half bad either. One of the best lyricists.

Yeah I've got Monche in the top 50 easily

he's released some very critically acclaimed works...including one of my favorite albums of all-time Internal Affairs

plus dudes style and lyrics are very original...he's one of the best wordsmiths in the game

I haven't even talked about what he's done with Organized Konfusion, which was also critically acclaimed

top 50 easily IMO

Top 50 without question.

Get the fuck outta here y'all...

Kev, are you going to nominate Organized Konfusion too? If so, I don't know where i'd rank Pharoahe by himself. I mean he's top 10 MC to me, but his solo output isn't a lot. If OK will be separate, i'll have a better idea where to vote.

yea is Organized Konfusion going to be nominated as well?

I guess I will do them seperate ut I should have included them with Pharoahe.

Phar only has one solo album that most east coast heads hold high and only one OK album that east coast heads mostly hold high. Outside of that he has not done nothing really, anbody who has been in the game for over 15 yrs and can only drop two solo albums is not no top 50. THIS IS NOT 100 GREATEST LYRICISTS! I must stress that because that seems like that is the only criteria that is getting looked at by most. I mean this shit is getting out of hand, I know and feel Pharoahe lyrically is really top 20-30 but that is where the buck stops. He does not have a strong delivery and his flow is nothing great.I mean think about it.

Ahhhh...maybe top 70...

lol...kev getting angry ONCE AGAIN because people aren't voting his way...he's top 50 to most objective heads, top 50 from me as well.

Pharoahe Monch is one of the 10 most skilled rappers ever, in my opinion. His flow is top level, he has a strong and distinctive delivery, he has great creativity. And most of all, lyrically he's top 5, and I'm talking about real lyricism, not the repetitive punchline/similie/battle shit that gets overrated so much, for an individual like Jadakiss. Pharoahe Monch has a deep understanding of all things lyrical, he throws out different rhyme schemes, poetic techniques, concepts, all around song writing.

So, while I recognize the criticism about his catalog, as a solo artist he has one great album and another very good album, and it seems we're gonna do OK separately (which they deserve, Prince Po's contribution was significant enough to warrant that recognition that it wasn't all Monch), I think he's displayed such a high level of ability that he deserves top 50 recognition as a solo artist.

If folks would be objective it would break down like this let's compare him to Naughty By Nature who made top 100:

Pharoah: Lyrics, creativity, one classic, and delivery

NBN: Lyrics, flow, delivery, anthems/hits, overall catalog, impact, 2 classics, consistant

So objectively how does Pharoahe make top 50 if NBN is top 100?

This dude only has two solo albums and they were like 7yrs apart and he's top 50?

i'm counting his group work as well


are you going to complain about big L? Biggie? Big Pun??????????

Wow, Kev.


Top 20.

Kev, judging artists is inherently subjective, no matter how much you want to dress it up in language about considering this and that, measuring this against this other thingy, absorbing the truth about this from the Hip-Hop particles floating through the air.

First problem is, there are no set criteria for greatness here. We might not even be able to agree on which factors to consider, never mind how much weight to grant to each factor. You say this isn't a top 100 lyricists list, but according to who? Maybe to some people, 100 greatest and 100 best lyricists are basically the same thing. Who's to say they're wrong?

Second problem, judging lyricism, flow, delivery, catalog, whatever, are all very individual things. You say Monch's flow is nothing great, I say he's one of the best ever when it comes to flow. They're both just opinions.

So, you need to give up on having this conform to your ideas about it Kev. There's no objective truth here, it's mostly subjective.

I see you haven't left town yet Kev,

Monch is Top 50 when you consider all the work he's done with Organized Konfusion. His solo albums have been good too, especially Internal Affairs which is a personal classic to me.

Since everyone is including Organized Konfusion, Monch is top 50 rather easily.

Naughty By Nature has 2 classics? Please name them...

I voted top 100 considering his work with OK....

KRob86 wrote:

I guess I will do them seperate ut I should have included them with Pharoahe.

Phar only has one solo album that most east coast heads hold high and only one OK album that east coast heads mostly hold high. Outside of that he has not done nothing really, anbody who has been in the game for over 15 yrs and can only drop two solo albums is not no top 50. THIS IS NOT 100 GREATEST LYRICISTS! I must stress that because that seems like that is the only criteria that is getting looked at by most. I mean this shit is getting out of hand, I know and feel Pharoahe lyrically is really top 20-30 but that is where the buck stops. He does not have a strong delivery and his flow is nothing great.I mean think about it.

Doesn't have a strong delivery? You're fuckin crazy! His delivery and flow are EXCELLENT! Also, the first two Organized Konfusion albums are CLASSICS in my opinion, and many people would agree.

KRob86 wrote:

I guess I will do them seperate ut I should have included them with Pharoahe.

Phar only has one solo album that most east coast heads hold high and only one OK album that east coast heads mostly hold high. Outside of that he has not done nothing really, anbody who has been in the game for over 15 yrs and can only drop two solo albums is not no top 50. THIS IS NOT 100 GREATEST LYRICISTS! I must stress that because that seems like that is the only criteria that is getting looked at by most. I mean this shit is getting out of hand, I know and feel Pharoahe lyrically is really top 20-30 but that is where the buck stops. He does not have a strong delivery and his flow is nothing great.I mean think about it.

lol...don't break the cypher. Pass that blunt this way...

Kopasetick wrote:

KRob86 wrote:

I guess I will do them seperate ut I should have included them with Pharoahe.

Phar only has one solo album that most east coast heads hold high and only one OK album that east coast heads mostly hold high. Outside of that he has not done nothing really, anbody who has been in the game for over 15 yrs and can only drop two solo albums is not no top 50. THIS IS NOT 100 GREATEST LYRICISTS! I must stress that because that seems like that is the only criteria that is getting looked at by most. I mean this shit is getting out of hand, I know and feel Pharoahe lyrically is really top 20-30 but that is where the buck stops. He does not have a strong delivery and his flow is nothing great.I mean think about it.

lol...don't break the cypher. Pass that blunt this way...

If you agree with what Kev said, then it's only two cats smokin which IS NOT a cypher.

Kopasetick wrote:

Naughty By Nature has 2 classics? Please name them...

I don't know about two but '19 Naugthy III' is one of them. I have them down for 1 classic.

NBN have their 1st and 2ns album I have seen called classics. I am the first to hear this?

Jason I am not trying to get no one to conform to my ideas i'm sharing my thoughts on this artist like everyone does. I just know what the deal is with some of this voting and like share how bullish I think it is. Can't we debate?

This dude has only one damn album that some cats from the east and a few undaground heads call classic. Phar is a deadly lyricist and we all agree on that but he has no biz imo in the top 50 when Mobb Deep, Ice T, and others are top 100. Seriously no one around here talks about Pharoahe on that level, I mean cats I know from the east never mention him I usually have to then they say "oh yeah".

But seriously i'm just sharing my honest thoughts not trying to froce anyone into anything. I'm just passionate about this.

Sure, we can debate, but the way your post was worded it's like your opinion on things is supposed to be the "objectively" right. I'm just saying the "objective" talk is a little overboard.

KRob86 wrote:

NBN have their 1st and 2ns album I have seen called classics. I am the first to hear this?

Jason I am not trying to get no one to conform to my ideas i'm sharing my thoughts on this artist like everyone does. I just know what the deal is with some of this voting and like share how bullish I think it is. Can't we debate?

This dude has only one damn album that some cats from the east and a few undaground heads call classic. Phar is a deadly lyricist and we all agree on that but he has no biz imo in the top 50 when Mobb Deep, Ice T, and others are top 100. Seriously no one around here talks about Pharoahe on that level, I mean cats I know from the east never mention him I usually have to then they say "oh yeah".

But seriously i'm just sharing my honest thoughts not trying to froce anyone into anything. I'm just passionate about this.

Kev, Organized Konfusion's first two albums are classics, and I'm not the only person that feels that way.

As for Naughty By Nature, I only consider their debut album a classic. 19 Naughty III is 4.5 stars IMO.

I understand what you are saying about the way people have been voting. I feel that Mobb Deep and Ice T should have made Top 50 as well. Salt and Pepa didn't make the list because of this groups bias against female rappers. But I just take this shit with a grain of salt, because this is just a forum of people. The opinions here aren't all universal. If they were, then groups like Mobb Deep, Ice T, and SNP wouldn't have achieved the success they have.

IMO Pharoahe Monch is Top 50 because I've included his work with O.K., without it he'd probably be Top 100 but his lyrical skill and the quality of his albums, both solo and group, convinced me to give him the Top 50 nod.

Well I shouldn't nom OK by themselves if folks are putting those two albums into the equation. I'm about to edit the title, cause Cee Lo and Goodie will get the same look.

KRob86 wrote:

Well I shouldn't nom OK by themselves if folks are putting those two albums into the equation. I'm about to edit the title, cause Cee Lo and Goodie will get the same look.

Yeah you should edit it. If anything it'll give both groups a stronger case.

MarcoPolo wrote:

Kopasetick wrote:

Naughty By Nature has 2 classics? Please name them...

I don't know about two but '19 Naugthy III' is one of them. I have them down for 1 classic.

That's what I was thinking...

KRob86 wrote:

Well I shouldn't nom OK by themselves if folks are putting those two albums into the equation. I'm about to edit the title, cause Cee Lo and Goodie will get the same look.

Yeah, that sounds like a good thing to do. I would include Cee-Lo's two solo's with Goodie Mobb too

Kopasetick wrote:

MarcoPolo wrote:

Kopasetick wrote:

Naughty By Nature has 2 classics? Please name them...

I don't know about two but '19 Naugthy III' is one of them. I have them down for 1 classic.

That's what I was thinking...

I think Their debut is a classic too. How do you rate that album?

I liked Naughty's debut better than 19 Naughty III. The debut is a classic to me whereas the sophomore album has a couple of skip tracks IMO.

lol...kev so sore he gotta edit the fucking topic

KJ Styles wrote:

If you agree with what Kev said, then it's only two cats smokin which IS NOT a cypher.

You missed my point, dude...

T. Myers wrote:

Kopasetick wrote:

MarcoPolo wrote:

Kopasetick wrote:

Naughty By Nature has 2 classics? Please name them...

I don't know about two but '19 Naugthy III' is one of them. I have them down for 1 classic.

That's what I was thinking...

I think Their debut is a classic too. How do you rate that album?

4 stars...there's a lot of skip material on their debut. Too much for this listener to ignore.

It's str8 5 stars for me Nor and top 10 fav album of mine. What trks do you skip?

Pharoahe is definitely top 50

Top 50 for me

Top 100 for Monch or OK...whichever one were voting on.