100 Greastest Nominee Day 33

Masta Ace

I've got Ace in my top 100 of all-time somewhere in the 60's

a pioneering member of the juice crew, a very talented lyricist, has released a bunch of critically acclaimed works and is still going strong today as is evident by last year's eMC project which was a 4.5 to 5 star effort IMO

Ace is one of the best...the area he lacks a little is in overall impact and influence

when most heads think of the juice crew for example Ace is normally not the first name you think of and actually I have 2 of those emcees ahead of him (Kane and Kool G Rap)
and also Craig G on the battling tip


but Ace always rode comfortably in his own lane and maintained that lane very well

D.Powell wrote:

when most heads think of the juice crew for example Ace is normally not the first name you think of and actually I have 2 of those emcees ahead of him (Kane and Kool G Rap)

You think? Personally, I think of Marley Marl, then Masta Ace, because Ace has stayed the most relevant over the years IMO.

That said, Ace definitely gets top 50 from me. There aren't many artists that have a discography as smokin' as his. All of his records stay in my rotation.

Off topic: Did we cover Arrested Development?

Well, Ace is actually the fourth or fifth person i think of when it comes to the Juice Crew(Marl, BDK, G Rap, Biz, and Shan). It has nothing to do with his skill. A lot of it has to do with the fact that he is so unassuming and under the radar. I have just got into Ace recently because i really wasn't impressed with Slaughtahouse enough to check out more of his discography. However, I was able to get Disposable Arts and Long Hot Summer for a good price a few months ago. I love the concepts, originality, and lyrics on both of those. I would place him in the top 100.

T. Myers wrote:

Well, Ace is actually the fourth or fifth person i think of when it comes to the Juice Crew(Marl, BDK, G Rap, Biz, and Shan). It has nothing to do with his skill.

I suppose it'd just be who your favorite is. Cause I also think of Tragedy/Intelligent Hoodlum before Biz Markie....of course my view is retrospect. And I nearly forget about MC Shan half the time I think of the Juice Crew...lol. You think of Shan before Ace? Just because of "The Bridge"?

Minnesota Hip-Hop Fiend wrote:

T. Myers wrote:

Well, Ace is actually the fourth or fifth person i think of when it comes to the Juice Crew(Marl, BDK, G Rap, Biz, and Shan). It has nothing to do with his skill.

I suppose it'd just be who your favorite is. Cause I also think of Tragedy/Intelligent Hoodlum before Biz Markie....of course my view is retrospect. And I nearly forget about MC Shan half the time I think of the Juice Crew...lol. You think of Shan before Ace? Just because of "The Bridge"?

Well I think of Shan more because of his association with KRS One's career. There is no way that Shan is a better MC than Ace, but i do really like Shan's first two albums(his second album is really underrated). I really need to order that 2 disc set with Tragedy's first two albums.

How did you and Powell both vote him top 100 but there's only one vote for top 100?

Top 50 for me. Original style, and a great discography. 3 almost classics and another very solid album. Granted, we coulda used more material from MA, but few rappers have that kinda of consistency spread out over that much time.

T. Myers wrote:

Minnesota Hip-Hop Fiend wrote:

T. Myers wrote:

Well, Ace is actually the fourth or fifth person i think of when it comes to the Juice Crew(Marl, BDK, G Rap, Biz, and Shan). It has nothing to do with his skill.

I suppose it'd just be who your favorite is. Cause I also think of Tragedy/Intelligent Hoodlum before Biz Markie....of course my view is retrospect. And I nearly forget about MC Shan half the time I think of the Juice Crew...lol. You think of Shan before Ace? Just because of "The Bridge"?

Well I think of Shan more because of his association with KRS One's career. There is no way that Shan is a better MC than Ace, but i do really like Shan's first two albums(his second album is really underrated). I really need to order that 2 disc set with Tragedy's first two albums.

Yeah, Tragedy's early stuff as Intelligent Hoodlum is smoking IMO. That 2-disc set is dope. I'd give the first disc/album 4.5 stars, and the second an easy 5 stars. That's easily my favorite work from Tragedy.

I own "Down By Law" and have heard his second. I don't vibe with either very much. I really couldn't give either above 3.5 stars.

Lord Emperor N3R0N0N wrote:

How did you and Powell both vote him top 100 but there's only one vote for top 100?

That is pretty weird now that you mention it... lol

Lord Emperor N3R0N0N wrote:

3 almost classics and another very solid album.

So you don't feel Ace has any classics?

Minnesota Hip-Hop Fiend wrote:

Lord Emperor N3R0N0N wrote:

How did you and Powell both vote him top 100 but there's only one vote for top 100?

That is pretty weird now that you mention it... lol

I got sidetracked with work, and i actually forgot to vote. I have voted now.

Minnesota Hip-Hop Fiend wrote:

Lord Emperor N3R0N0N wrote:

3 almost classics and another very solid album.

So you don't feel Ace has any classics?

Disposable Arts is the only one i'd give 5 star to.

Ah, lame.

But yeah out of al the old school cats I gotta give it up for Juice Crew. I think they have the most talent of any crew in hip hop EVER (yes, including wu tang or whatever bullshit crew some one else can name) and their influence their polysyllabic rhyming, dope punchlines and over dope fucking music still rings true to this day.

And Al IMO I would say Slaughtahouse and Disposable Arts are personal classics but aren't consensus classics. Any album with Paul Barman on it (even if only for a few seconds) has a strike against it and Slaughtahouse maybe a little satirical and over the top for some.

T. Myers wrote:

Minnesota Hip-Hop Fiend wrote:

Lord Emperor N3R0N0N wrote:

3 almost classics and another very solid album.

So you don't feel Ace has any classics?

Disposable Arts is the only one i'd give 5 star to.

Lord Emperor N3R0N0N wrote:

Ah, lame.

But yeah out of al the old school cats I gotta give it up for Juice Crew. I think they have the most talent of any crew in hip hop EVER (yes, including wu tang or whatever bullshit crew some one else can name) and their influence their polysyllabic rhyming, dope punchlines and over dope fucking music still rings true to this day.

And Al IMO I would say Slaughtahouse and Disposable Arts are personal classics but aren't consensus classics. Any album with Paul Barman on it (even if only for a few seconds) has a strike against it and Slaughtahouse maybe a little satirical and over the top for some.

Man, it seems you and Powell should find some common ground with the Juice Crew. Both of you claim they were the best collective in hip-hop history.

As for my Masta Ace rankings...

Take a Look Around - 5 stars
SlaughtaHouse - 5 stars
Sittin' on Chrome - 4 stars
Disposable Arts - 4.5 stars
A Long Hot Summer - 5 stars
EMC - The Show - 5 stars

Obviously, I'm a fan...lol, but I thought "Take a Look Around" & "SlaughtaHouse" were considered classics my many hip-hop heads....at least "Take a Look Around" - which is probably my favorite album from Ace...followed by "A Long Hot Summer".

Yeah I co-sign N3RO 3000%

The Juice Crew is the greatest hip-hop collective in hip-hop history even better than Wu-Tang who is second IMO

The Juice Crew:

Marley Marl-the leader/producer

Big Daddy Kane
Kool G Rap
Craig G
Masta Ace
Biz Markie
Tragedy
MC Shan
Roxanne Shante
Glamorous

Wu-Tang Clan:

RZA-the leader/producer

Ghostface
Raekwon
GZA
Masta Killa
Method Man
Ol D.B.
U-God
Inspectah Deck


it's real close but IMO The Juice Crew is a little stronger

I prefer the Clan, but i think that has a lot to do with the fact that i grew up listening to them. Juice Crew was a little before my time. However, The Juice Crew deserves the title as greatest collective. a top 10 producer and two top 10 MC's is hard to beat.

No way in hell is Masta Ace top 50 get off that imo. You know I am watching due to cats who really deserve that top 50 spot being displaced or put in the top 100. Ace is only known by diehard rap fans and made no impact on this industry or the craft. He is nice on the mic so that counts for something but his albums are not even on anybody's radar really. I know cats from NY that don't mention Ace but he's top 50? I respect people's personal ratings so don't take this wrong but at the sametime I just can't see it. I voted top 100 because of his rap skills and consistanty album wise. But to be top 50 you have to be very high in at least one major catergory.

KRob86 wrote:

Ace is only known by diehard rap fans and made no impact on this industry or the craft. He is nice on the mic so that counts for something but his albums are not even on anybody's radar really.

You really believe that Kev? I strongly disagree. Just becasue he didn't produce any blockbusters does not mean that his albums and a handful of his singles did not chart. He is plenty relevant, and probably more relevant than all the members in the Juice Crew nowadays. I don't see any of them dropping that hot isht like the EMC album, or "A Long Hot Summer". Ace definitely made an impact on hip-hop, no matter how much you dislike him.

How does he even crack your top 100? I thought you weren't much of a fan of Ace's, so why not "neither"? I know you're trying to be objective, but top 100? There aren't 100 rappers/groups you like more than Ace?

I didn't vote neither because that would just be out of spite and that's not right. I can see the man being top 100 and I feel he deserves it. And I agree with what you are saying about him still being relevant even though I see it as semi relevant. Seriously though no one is really checking for Ace like that anymore.

KRob86 wrote:
Ace is only known by diehard rap fans and made no impact on this industry or the craft. He is nice on the mic so that counts for something but his albums are not even on anybody's radar really.


C'mon man. You just dissed 99.9 percent of underground music. So I guess we should put 50 cent, Soujah Boy and Mase in our top 50 cause they made an impact on the industry...SMH. Let's talk about what's important and that's Quailty of Music. A Long Hot Summer, Disposable Arts and Slaughtahouse blow's alot of album's that made an impact on the industry out the water. Hip hop fan's need to get their priorities straight.

I don't think you can put ANYBODY over Marley Marl, Kool G Rap, Big Daddy Kane, Mc Shan, Biz Markie, and Masta Ace. That's like a joke to me. You're telling me that you can match up the Wu Tang clan with those dudes?


I don't think it's close for a second. The ONLY reason Wu Tang is brought up like that is their first group album and their first round of solos plus they have more members so it seems like they have a bigger impact but really they're just all over the place. It feels to me like everybody (with the notable exceptions of Gza and Ghost) is just waiting for them to release something as dope as their first record. The Juice Crew came consistent and continue to drop dope music decades later, with no wackness in between. Craig G, Masta Ace, and Traged have all been heavily involved in 4 star efforts or better in the last year and a half. Kool G Rap and Kane haven't marred their careers with subpar release after subpar release. I don't foresee the Wu doing the same.


And Kev, you're sayin one of Eminem's biggest influences hasn't had that great of an impact on the game?

KRob86 wrote:

Seriously though no one is really checking for Ace like that anymore.

What do you even mean by that? Nobody is checking for Ace? Are you serious? I've heard nothing but critical acclaim and love from his fans on his last 3 records. Hell, a big reason I started checking for Ace is because of how relevant he is nowadays, and how high quality and forward-thinking his latest albums have been.

Especially when you voted for King Tee...this kinda looks hypocritical Kev.

KRob86 wrote:

I didn't vote neither because that would just be out of spite and that's not right. I can see the man being top 100 and I feel he deserves it.

I do agree that he objectively deserves it (if not top 50), but I'd prefer to see you (and everyone) vote how you personally feel if you like 100 others artists more. Not trying to beat a dead horse, but I'm just sayin'...

Lord Emperor N3R0N0N wrote:

Especially when you voted for King Tee...this kinda looks hypocritical Kev.

I liked that Kev voted King Tee in because that shows it's more of his personal opinion.

I may get isht for voting Common in the "neither" category. But that's how I "personally" feel about his music as well...

Yes, I think both collectives are comparable. IMO, RZA is better than Marley, but they cancel each other out. For most people BDK and G Rap are better lyricists than anyone from Wu, but i GZA and Meth up there with them. All 4 of them are in my top 20. Ghost is as consistent as Ace. ODB was just as much of a character as Biz. Deck is dope, but he could never put it together for a solo just like Craig G. I don't really see where Juice Crew pulls away from them. Juice Crew has dropped some duds along the way too. There were only like 5 albums from the clan that were just plain bad. If we were to look at most peoples top albums list, there is a good chance that we would see 3 Wu albums before we got to the first Juice Crew album.

The Juice Crew vs. Wu-Tang Clan poll is up.

Masta Ace is in my top 15

Jeff where did Masta Ace influence Em? And even if he did so what he influenced Em but who else? Who wants him on there album for guest appearance? Maybe i'm not hearing/seeing it but how many albums have Ace appeared on in the last two yrs underground or anywhere? And I would take King Tee over Ace anyday so how is that hypocritical? King Tee means just as much to the left coast as Ace does to the right coast.

And Marco Polo I hear what you are saying and maybe he is big to the average undaground fan but above ground where the rankings can be taking just as serious not many is checking for Ace really not even mid stream wise.

Kev, Em said Ace was an influence. I can't remember the exact year, but Em won an award at the Grammy's and listed his influences. Ace was one of them.

KRob86 wrote:

And I would take King Tee over Ace anyday so how is that hypocritical?

And Marco Polo I hear what you are saying and maybe he is big to the average undaground fan but above ground where the rankings can be taking just as serious not many is checking for Ace really not even mid stream wise.

It may be viewed as hypocritical because you are voting for different reasons. You don't really like Ace that much, but you still vote him top 100 because "he deserves it"? Does it really matter? If you don't like him, you don't like him. However, you vote King Tee in because of personal preference, when you have to know Ace has way more pull and influence in the game. When was the last album Tee dropped? Did it make any noise? Why are all Tee's albums out of print? You really think he made more of an "impact" than Ace? People call me delusional sometimes, but the way you sum up Ace's fan base sounds delusional to me. The only way you can come to that conclusion is to constantly ignoring praise and the quality of Ace's last 3 albums (among his entire discography).

This is that bullshit that really gets to me about this forum at times when a cat like Ace is top 50 but Ice T, Lyte, Slick Rick, Snoop, Mobb Deep, and others are top 100?? I mean step back and really think about that, put your personal feelings aside for a sec and really look at this.

Minnesota Hip-Hop Fiend wrote:

KRob86 wrote:

And I would take King Tee over Ace anyday so how is that hypocritical?

And Marco Polo I hear what you are saying and maybe he is big to the average undaground fan but above ground where the rankings can be taking just as serious not many is checking for Ace really not even mid stream wise.

It may be viewed as hypocritical because you are voting for different reasons. You don't really like Ace that much, but you still vote him top 100 because "he deserves it"? Does it really matter? If you don't like him, you don't like him. However, you vote King Tee in because of personal preference, when you have to know Ace has way more pull and influence in the game. When was the last album Tee dropped? Did it make any noise? Why are all Tee's albums out of print? You really think he made more of an "impact" than Ace? People call me delusional sometimes, but the way you sum up Ace's fan base sounds delusional to me. The only way you can come to that conclusion is to constantly ignoring praise and the quality of Ace's last 3 albums (among his entire discography).

Ah Jeff King Tee influence is seen on the west coast/gangsta rap big time and if you talk to enough people out there I bet they know and respect King Tee. Now I do agree that Ace is way more relevent today that goes without saying but King Tee albums are highly praised by the people that own them and I have never heard a person who owns his labums and listened to them call them weak or average but I have heard folks say that about Ace. Even Powell who is die hard east coast see's Ace is top 100 and trust me he is one of a lot because I have been into rap for a long time and most of it has been spent in the streets and other places not a internet forum and no one brings up Ace..sorry.

KRob86 wrote:

This is that bullshit that really gets to me about this forum at times when a cat like Ace is top 50 but Ice T, Lyte, Slick Rick, Snoop, Mobb Deep, and others are top 100?? I mean step back and really think about that, put your personal feelings aside for a sec and really look at this.

Everyone has thought about it. That's why the results are what they are. It shows people are giving their honest opinion and not the top 100 according to XXL or the Source. I know you don't intend for it to come across this way, but when you make statements like this, you come across as an elitist and a know it all.

KRob86 wrote:

This is that bullshit that really gets to me about this forum at times when a cat like Ace is top 50 but Ice T, Lyte, Slick Rick, Snoop, Mobb Deep, and others are top 100?? I mean step back and really think about that, put your personal feelings aside for a sec and really look at this.

LMAO!!! I agree, but for the OPPOSITE reason.

This is the best 100 albums of the "Hip-Hop 4 Life" forum. Opinions drive this list. If everybody thought "objectively" and tried to steer the votes towards "objective thinkers" this would get boring real quick, and the discussions would go nowhere. Opinions are the reason were talking.

Again Kev, you voted for King Tee on personal preference. You are guilty of it yourself. Don't deny it.

I and others probably think your opinion of Ace is bullshit too. OPINIONS! GOTTA LOVE 'EM!

I thought this is just what this was supposed to be, us expressing our opinions about Hip-Hop in this list, creating a unique list that reflects the forum, not just parroting back the standard names. Obviously, when we step back and really think about it, we don't find it the least bit problematic to put Ace over Snoop, or we wouldn't have voted like that.

KRob86 wrote:

Minnesota Hip-Hop Fiend wrote:

KRob86 wrote:

And I would take King Tee over Ace anyday so how is that hypocritical?

And Marco Polo I hear what you are saying and maybe he is big to the average undaground fan but above ground where the rankings can be taking just as serious not many is checking for Ace really not even mid stream wise.

It may be viewed as hypocritical because you are voting for different reasons. You don't really like Ace that much, but you still vote him top 100 because "he deserves it"? Does it really matter? If you don't like him, you don't like him. However, you vote King Tee in because of personal preference, when you have to know Ace has way more pull and influence in the game. When was the last album Tee dropped? Did it make any noise? Why are all Tee's albums out of print? You really think he made more of an "impact" than Ace? People call me delusional sometimes, but the way you sum up Ace's fan base sounds delusional to me. The only way you can come to that conclusion is to constantly ignoring praise and the quality of Ace's last 3 albums (among his entire discography).

Ah Jeff King Tee influence is seen on the west coast/gangsta rap big time and if you talk to enough people out there I bet they know and respect King Tee. Now I do agree that Ace is way more relevent today that goes without saying but King Tee albums are highly praised by the people that own them and I have never heard a person who owns his labums and listened to them call them weak or average but I have heard folks say that about Ace. Even Powell who is die hard east coast see's Ace is top 100 and trust me he is one of a lot because I have been into rap for a long time and most of it has been spent in the streets and other places not a internet forum and no one brings up Ace..sorry.

You just summed up Ace's fanbase. You've heard Masta Ace fans call his records weak? "Sittin' on Chrome" is the only album that ever gets an downplay that I've seen, and fans still usually consider it a 4-star record. Keep trying to convince yourself Ace has no following. I don't believe it. Especially if you are implying King Tee has had a bigger/more influential run. LOL

Jason wrote:

I thought this is just what this was supposed to be, us expressing our opinions about Hip-Hop in this list, creating a unique list that reflects the forum, not just parroting back the standard names. Obviously, when we step back and really think about it, we don't find it the least bit problematic to put Ace over Snoop, or we wouldn't have voted like that.

Masta Ace >>>> Snoop

I love Ace - he is top 100 - snoop is times better though.. so is ice t... and short dog...

King Tee is not a fav of mine personally yet but I did vote him top 100 due to my knowledge of his influence, album quality, lyrics, and pioneer status. And also agree with your "objectice vote" theory and it would get boring quickly but at the sametime it's situational. I think someone would be a azz to vote neither for a person when they truly know the credentails of said artist.

And Terry no I do not mean to come off like that glad you cansemi see that. But at the sametime I am very confident in my knowledge of rap music so in some ways I do feel like a know it all at times. But I know i'm not.

KRob86 wrote:

King Tee is not a fav of mine personally yet but I did vote him top 100 due to my knowledge of his influence, album quality, lyrics, and pioneer status. And also agree with your "objectice vote" theory and it would get boring quickly but at the sametime it's situational. I think someone would be a azz to vote neither for a person when they truly know the credentails of said artist.

And Terry no I do not mean to come off like that glad you cansemi see that. But at the sametime I am very confident in my knowledge of rap music so in some ways I do feel like a know it all at times. But I know i'm not.

So Tee gets a vote because of your personal knowledge, and Ace is getting the same type of votes. He possesses all those things to OTHER people. Maybe not you. But he's got 'em, and many agree, obviously.

I know you know your hip-hop, Kev. But what makes these forums great are all the differing opinions.

Masta Ace got a top 100 vote from me...and seriously, can people stop bleeding vaginally over votes? Seriously? Come on dudes...

I voted top 50. He's got an excellent discography and he's stayed consistent throughout his career.

He's top 50 for me...

Kev, you never answered the question in my first post:

Has Arrested Development been nominated yet? If not, get 'em in the rotation! lol

No Arrested Have not been nominated. They would be top 100 for me though. Great catalog.

Cise Starr wrote:

No Arrested Have not been nominated. They would be top 100 for me though. Great catalog.

I own all their records, so I'm looking forward to a good debate that day. But I'll save it...lol.

Minnesota Hip-Hop Fiend wrote:

I own all their records, so I'm looking forward to a good debate that day. But I'll save it...lol.

Yeah I got all their stuff as well. Quality, underrated group.

Cise Starr wrote:

Minnesota Hip-Hop Fiend wrote:

I own all their records, so I'm looking forward to a good debate that day. But I'll save it...lol.

Yeah I got all their stuff as well. Quality, underrated group.

We'll get to see just how underrated they are when they get talked about. I know Kev is a fan, but I don't know how he'll vote either. I'm sure there will be plenty of haters. I've been bumping a lot of AD lately.