100 Greatest Nominee Day 43

D.Powell wrote:

Oh and Ball and MJG have never written any lyrics like the ones on "Straighten It Out" or "T.R.O.Y." or "I Gotta Love" or "Let's See What's Next On The Menu?"

CL would get both of those above-average lyricists and he's above average as well...but the way he puts together his words would get those two..Eightball is the stronger one of the two IMO and I don't think CL would have any trouble getting him...

shit basing it on the "fatter" emcees...Heavy D would get him....Chubb Rock would get him...Biggie would KILL him....Big Pun would get him....he would probably get The Fat Boys...

let's stop acting like Ball and MJG are supreme lyricists because that ain't even true...outta the south 'Face would get 'em too...Luda too...'Kast too

I don't think any of those songs are lyrical masterpieces. Although T.R.O.Y. is so moving, it could pass for lyrical greatness if needed. If you agree that that CL Smooth is an above average rapper too, i don't see any reason to go back and forth about who is better. I will state my peace and i will move on. I agree with you that Eightball is the better of the two(although most fans from the south prefer MJG). I think he has been great at times, but he settles nicely into the above average category. I think Eightball is a much better story teller. I think Eightball has the ability to adapt to any beat. I think Eightball knows how to ride the beat better. I think Eightball is more charismatic and animated which would prove beneficial in a battle(although i don't see either one as a battle MC, but i'm sure CL does have more experience). I think Eightball has a better delivery too.

As far as other fat MC's getting Eightball, that seems kinda childish, but i'll entertain you. I'm not sure Heavy D would get him, but i wouldn't be surprised either way. Heavy is underrated on the mic, and he has the same intangibles i see in Eightball. I'm not familiar enough with Chubb Rock to answer, and the other two would get Eightball with ease probably.

D.Powell wrote:

http://www.amazon.com/Chuck-D-Lyrics-Rap-Revolutionary/dp/0974948411/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1243944629&sr=1-2

Ya'll see the above link???

If your doubting Chuck's lyrical skills then go read the fuckin book...it contains a bunch of his lyrics and go see if your favorite emcee can match him word for word....dude has a book dedicated to his lyrics...check it out

Terry as far as the cohesiveness of Run-D.M.C. no group can match that man...your talking about later in their career for your point...I'm talking about OVERALL....no group can match their cohesiveness man

Pac has a book dedicated to his poetry too, but he's not a great lyricist, right?

I don't need a book to tell me what's great, but if you seek validation through a book more power to you. I can base my decision on the music. You are letting the power of the music and the man cloud your opinion, but that's cool.

You brought up Outkast's problems on there latter albums so i brought up Run DMC's. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, right?

Nothing is clouded Terry, Chuck D is a GREAT lyricist man....plain and simple

you consider ATLiens to be Outkast's later work??

it's their second album Terry what are you talking about??

I said they started drifting apart from each other by their second album Terry....by number two their cohesiveness started to change...it was still their greatest effort but the dynamics of the group started to change

D.Powell wrote:

Nothing is clouded Terry, Chuck D is a GREAT lyricist man....plain and simple

you consider ATLiens to be Outkast's later work??

it's their second album Terry what are you talking about??

I said they started drifting apart from each other by their second album Terry....by number two their cohesiveness started to change...it was still their greatest effort but the dynamics of the group started to change

If you think the drift between them was evident on ATLiens, I honestly don't know what to tell you you. Most people tend to agree that the drift began around Aquemini, but it wasn't noticable until Stankonia. I'm not trying to knock Run DMC at all. I think they have 2 classics, and their first 4 albums could be put up against Outkast's first 4. I'd obviously pick Kast's first 4 albums, but it's certainly understandable if someone chose Run DMC.

KJ,

Here's my take/opinion on Luda...

IMO Luda can definitely be a tight rapper when he wants to be. Like on "Phat Rabbit" for instance. But he comes off sloppy much of the time. I didn't care a whole lot of the constant yelling and call & response choruses. Overall, he's good at what he does, but I'd like to see him more lyrical. My favorites were "What's Your Fantasy", "Mouthing Off", "Stick 'Em Up" feat. UGK, "Catch Up", "Southern Hospitality", & "Phat Rabbit".

While I was bumping it, I was talking to my roommate, and he had "Chicken & Beer", so I listened to most of that. And honestly, I liked the standouts on there more. Like "Southern Fried Intro", "Blow It Out", "Stand Up", "Hard Times", "Screwed Up", & "Hip Hop Quotables" (my fav). Lyrically, he sounds better and more complex. Which I like.

Minnesota Hip-Hop Fiend wrote:

KJ,

Here's my take/opinion on Luda...

IMO Luda can definitely be a tight rapper when he wants to be. Like on "Phat Rabbit" for instance. But he comes off sloppy much of the time. I didn't care a whole lot of the constant yelling and call & response choruses. Overall, he's good at what he does, but I'd like to see him more lyrical. My favorites were "What's Your Fantasy", "Mouthing Off", "Stick 'Em Up" feat. UGK, "Catch Up", "Southern Hospitality", & "Phat Rabbit".

While I was bumping it, I was talking to my roommate, and he had "Chicken & Beer", so I listened to most of that. And honestly, I liked the standouts on there more. Like "Southern Fried Intro", "Blow It Out", "Stand Up", "Hard Times", "Screwed Up", & "Hip Hop Quotables" (my fav). Lyrically, he sounds better and more complex. Which I like.

Pounds, I can see where you're coming from on that. I think Luda expanded his sound and got better(i love Back For The First Time though). I prefer Word Of Mouf. You should check that album out.

KRob86 wrote:

2. Ball & G lyrically seriouly murdas CL Smooth, how did this half azz make the top 50 is beyond me (Pete Rock okay).

I'm still not seeing it....lol...but it's all good.

T. Myers wrote:

I'm not trying to knock Run DMC at all. I think they have 2 classics, and their first 4 albums could be put up against Outkast's first 4. I'd obviously pick Kast's first 4 albums, but it's certainly understandable if someone chose Run DMC.

Only 2? Which two of the first 4 aren't classic? They're all classics IMO.

T. Myers wrote:

Minnesota Hip-Hop Fiend wrote:

KJ,

Here's my take/opinion on Luda...

IMO Luda can definitely be a tight rapper when he wants to be. Like on "Phat Rabbit" for instance. But he comes off sloppy much of the time. I didn't care a whole lot of the constant yelling and call & response choruses. Overall, he's good at what he does, but I'd like to see him more lyrical. My favorites were "What's Your Fantasy", "Mouthing Off", "Stick 'Em Up" feat. UGK, "Catch Up", "Southern Hospitality", & "Phat Rabbit".

While I was bumping it, I was talking to my roommate, and he had "Chicken & Beer", so I listened to most of that. And honestly, I liked the standouts on there more. Like "Southern Fried Intro", "Blow It Out", "Stand Up", "Hard Times", "Screwed Up", & "Hip Hop Quotables" (my fav). Lyrically, he sounds better and more complex. Which I like.

Pounds, I can see where you're coming from on that. I think Luda expanded his sound and got better(i love Back For The First Time though). I prefer Word Of Mouf. You should check that album out.

I'll check it out sometime. I brought the other CDs in today to give them some more plays.

Minnesota Hip-Hop Fiend wrote:

T. Myers wrote:

I'm not trying to knock Run DMC at all. I think they have 2 classics, and their first 4 albums could be put up against Outkast's first 4. I'd obviously pick Kast's first 4 albums, but it's certainly understandable if someone chose Run DMC.

Only 2? Which two of the first 4 aren't classic? They're all classics IMO.

I can understand someone thinking all four are classics, but personally the 2 i think are classics are their debut and Raising Hell. At first i only gave their debut 4.5 stars, but the more i listen to it the more i love. So I have bumped it up to 5 stars.

T. Myers wrote:

Minnesota Hip-Hop Fiend wrote:

T. Myers wrote:

I'm not trying to knock Run DMC at all. I think they have 2 classics, and their first 4 albums could be put up against Outkast's first 4. I'd obviously pick Kast's first 4 albums, but it's certainly understandable if someone chose Run DMC.

Only 2? Which two of the first 4 aren't classic? They're all classics IMO.

I can understand someone thinking all four are classics, but personally the 2 i think are classics are their debut and Raising Hell. At first i only gave their debut 4.5 stars, but the more i listen to it the more i love. So I have bumped it up to 5 stars.

To each their own. I can't find and faults with the "King Of Rock" or "Tougher Than Leather". Personally, their debut is my favorite.

Agreed again Pounds...all four of the first albums from Run-D.M.C. are classics IMO

Run-D.M.C.
King Of Rock
Raising Hell
Tougher Than Leather

Classic material IMO

ATLiens is when Andre was dating Erykah Badu and having a son with her and he started wearing turbans Terry...dude started looking like he was from outer space but not as bad as what was to come...Big Boi was still dressing and acting like they both did on their debut album which by the way was the only time Andre dressed like he was from the hood...lol

What does their manner of dress have to do with their ability to make dope music...must I remind you?

D.Powell wrote:

Agreed again Pounds...all four of the first albums from Run-D.M.C. are classics IMO

Run-D.M.C.
King Of Rock
Raising Hell
Tougher Than Leather

Classic material IMO

ATLiens is when Andre was dating Erykah Badu and having a son with her and he started wearing turbans Terry...dude started looking like he was from outer space but not as bad as what was to come...Big Boi was still dressing and acting like they both did on their debut album which by the way was the only time Andre dressed like he was from the hood...lol

That does not mean it was messing with their chemistry then.

SRP chimes in again without first reading exactly what we're talking about and he continues to throw up pictures of his dad to prove he's kinda funny...umm SRP it's not working lil boy...try again man

Terry they were drifting apart man...meaning they were each on their own planet by that time which of course would actually hurt the group in later years and it started back then on ATLiens

Proof Powell...

because otherwise you're making yourself look like a fucking fool seriously claiming Outkast were drifting apart on ATLiens... and I mean real proof that shows you've heard the album more than once and not just you talking out your ass about how someone was wearing a turban...

I'm making myself look like a fuckin fool SRP?

do you want me to start printing up your quotables man??

it would be like reading something Mike Tyson wrote you fuckin idiot...lol

I said on ATLiens is when Outkast began to start drifting apart and it was when they began to lose their cohesiveness as a group...even though that is their greatest album IMO, it's also when they began their drift...what part don't you understand??? CLUELESS JOE!

You want specific songs??

All the songs on that album were great but I saw Outkast in concert in 1997 and their show was fuckin horrible....

for an all-time classic album at that time, Diddy had a waaay better show back then..

they (Outkast) were starting to lose the cohesiveness which brought them together as a group to begin with

I don't understand how you can seriously claim a group drifted apart on their best CD... meaning where's the proof? Did big boi and andre stand further apart in the music videos?

D.Powell wrote:

I'm making myself look like a fuckin fool SRP?

do you want me to start printing up your quotables man??

it would be like reading something Mike Tyson wrote you fuckin idiot...lol

I said on ATLiens is when Outkast began to start drifting apart and it was when they began to lose their cohesiveness as a group...even though that is their greatest album IMO, it's also when they began their drift...what part don't you understand??? CLUELESS JOE!

Well Powell, Andre's transformation may have began at that time, but it did not alter their work until Stankonia.

D.Powell wrote:

You want specific songs??

All the songs on that album were great but I saw Outkast in concert in 1997 and their show was fuckin horrible....

for an all-time classic album at that time, Diddy had a waaay better show back then..

they (Outkast) were starting to lose the cohesiveness which brought them together as a group to begin with

There you go powell - talking about everything BUT the actual music... quit talking out your ass son...

SRP go look up the word COHESIVE and then holla at me

this is about GROUP chemistry stupid

something that if you went to any live shows you would know a little bit about, but because you don't realize to much about hip-hop you continue to think your Richard Pryor...

my dude you couldn't hold Richard's bass pipe....

COHESIVE/Chemistry....it's what made Run-D.M.C. great...Pete Rock and CL Smooth great...Outkast is great too but Andre fuckin with Badu made him think he lived on Jupiter and he began to fuck up a great group

HOW POWELL!!!!

How did he fuck up a good group if the music and cohesiveness was still there until AFTER Stankonia?

You have no fucking proof - you just are talking shit and generalities because you don't know what the fuck you're talking about!

And it is easy to be "cohesive" when you spit simple rhymes like Run DMC did...

Dude, Aquemini is widely regarded as their best album of their career. They address the rumors on the album, and there are no chemistry issues on that album. They did not show signs of cracking until Stankonia. It's possible that they just are not good in concert.

Powell obviously has no clue what he is talking about hence why he is bring ridiculous shit up like "Andre fucked Erykah Badu, he was wearing turbans, they were bad in concert, he was dressing funny"...clueless geezer...

Really SRP, have you ever seen a hip-hop concert man??

everybody knows that Outkast's steady decline was a direct result of Andre getting pussy whipped by Badu...

Outkast should still be going strong right now..I mean they only started in 1994....Badu's pussy has a habit of fuckin up "strong" men...ask Common....lmao!

SRP I can tell you really don't know hip-hop music man the more and more you run that retarted mouth...lol

hip-hop shows are just as important as releasing quality music dipstick...

you don't know hip-hop culture like that but how could you living waay out in Plantation,Tex-Ass near a cotton field and being only 26 years old??

you don't even own a fuckin radio let alone actually knowing about this GREAT artform..

your confused and lost my dude

I agree with Powell that Outkast did really begin to drift apart in terms of chemistry on ATLiens. It should be said that chemistry issues don't necessarily mean bad music. I think it made their music better in the short terms actually, a unique mix that took them to new places musically, and they made their best stuff. In the long term, however, I think the writing was on the wall, that eventually they'd move too far apart.

Personal problems with the members are irrelevant. Those problems never surfaced in the finished product until Stankonia.

T. Myers wrote:

Personal problems with the members are irrelevant. Those problems never surfaced in the finished product until Stankonia.

Those problems also failed to come to light until later as well - making it damn near impossible for Powell, Jason, or anyone else to see these so called "chemistry" problems back then. So these guys are talking in hindsight with their comments that "they could see" chemistry falling apart then. And Stankonia is a dope CD where they went to new areas stylistically but the chemistry was still there on each song.

Now THAT is true hip-hop REAL TALK HOMEY SIP DAT HATERADE bunny!

Southern Rap Pro wrote:

T. Myers wrote:

Personal problems with the members are irrelevant. Those problems never surfaced in the finished product until Stankonia.

Those problems also failed to come to light until later as well - making it damn near impossible for Powell, Jason, or anyone else to see these so called "chemistry" problems back then. So these guys are talking in hindsight with their comments that "they could see" chemistry falling apart then. And Stankonia is a dope CD where they went to new areas stylistically but the chemistry was still there on each song.

Exactly hindsight is 20/20. I still think Stankonia is a classic, but there was some slight noticable differences there.

THAT DUDE ON THE RIGHT IS STRAIGHT HIP HOP SON!!! REAL TALK HOMIE!!!!!

I saw it in concert SRP, how about you??

Powell most know like stated that Kast did not show true cracks in the armor musically until Stankonia. You saw small signs during Aquemini with the direction Dre was going physically and mentally.

Also you will never admit a southern artist is betta than a top golden age rapper, your bias won't allow it. So debating with you about southern lyricists and east coast lyricists is really pointless. Also when we compare rappers from coasts I think you look at flow and methaphor/battle type lyrics as the key point of a lyricists. But me and others look at life rhymes, witty lyrics, subject matter, and harder lyrics. Basically we judge them for the lane they are in, for example if I say Cube is a betta rapper than Big L I mean if you take Cube core subject matter and put it against L's I prefer Cube. I don't mean if they battled in L's lane Cube would get him...does that make sense?

I can kind of see what Powell and Jason is saying with ATLiens if they mean subject matter wise and skill/lyric wise. I could tell a big difference in the direction Dre was going and where Big Boi was still at skill wise. But the chemistry was there.

KRob86 wrote:

Powell most know like stated that Kast did not show true cracks in the armor musically until Stankonia. You saw small signs during Aquemini with the direction Dre was going physically and mentally.

Also you will never admit a southern artist is betta than a top golden age rapper, your bias won't allow it. So debating with you about southern lyricists and east coast lyricists is really pointless. Also when we compare rappers from coasts I think you look at flow and methaphor/battle type lyrics as the key point of a lyricists. But me and others look at life rhymes, witty lyrics, subject matter, and harder lyrics. Basically we judge them for the lane they are in, for example if I say Cube is a betta rapper than Big L I mean if you take Cube core subject matter and put it against L's I prefer Cube. I don't mean if they battled in L's lane Cube would get him...does that make sense?

but Kev if you look at "life rhymes" I can't think of another dude who said more of those types of rhymes than the great Chuck D

remember him?? the same guy you said was average???

http://www.amazon.com/Chuck-D-Lyrics-Rap-Revolutionary/dp/0974948411/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1243944629&sr=1-2

read the above book man...lol...real talk

yep, Chuck D touched on a lot of real life topics like Face, but you consider him to be just above average too, right? There is nothing wrong with above average. Chuck D is still a top notch MC

Yes Terry 'Face is an above average lyricist to me...he is most certainly not on the levels lyrically of Cool J, Kool G Rap, Chuck D, Biggie, Jadakiss, Jay-Z, just to name a few

he's more on the level of Q-Tip, Guru, Pac, etc, and all those guys just mentioned are legends just like the ones mentioned above man

THIS IS MY OPINION

D.Powell wrote:

Yes Terry 'Face is an above average lyricist to me...he is most certainly not on the levels lyrically of Cool J, Kool G Rap, Chuck D, Biggie, Jadakiss, Jay-Z, just to name a few

he's more on the level of Q-Tip, Guru, Pac, etc, and all those guys just mentioned are legends just like the ones mentioned above man

THIS IS MY OPINION

Well, maybe you should state it as such. As opposed to presenting it as fact.

Umm Terry do you mean to tell me I've got to type in that's it's my opinion for you to know that??? lol

D.Powell wrote:

Umm Terry do you mean to tell me I've got to type in that's it's my opinion for you to know that??? lol

haha! when it comes to you, you should type it in.

LOL

So the way the vote is now are they top 50 or top 100? Who are these folks voting neither?

They are top 100, but i think 6 neither votes is nothing more than straight southern prejudice.

T. Myers wrote:

They are top 100, but i think 6 neither votes is nothing more than straight southern prejudice.

Co-signage!! 3 in a row!!! :geek:

"Yes Terry 'Face is an above average lyricist to me...he is most certainly not on the levels lyrically of Cool J, Kool G Rap, Chuck D, Biggie, Jadakiss, Jay-Z, just to name a few

So you're putting Chuck on the same level as G Rap and Biggie? Or were you just lumping together those you say are great lyricists?

Yeah Shon I'm putting Chuck on the same damn level as Kool G Rap and Biggie...he's in my top ten of all-time as well as those others so he is certainly on their level...YES SHON I'm putting him there

Shon, why did you have to poke the sleeping dinosaur with a stick?

Exactly Terry that's equal to throwing your ass a half eaten chicken bone....lol

that would set you off something crazy right?? lol